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Maybe I don't understand evolution completely, but aren't we all born with the same fitness level? Maybe high IQ makes one fractionally higher in fitness in a

by ap22213 13y ago

Maybe I don't understand evolution completely, but aren't we all born with the same fitness level? Maybe high IQ makes one fractionally higher in fitness in a particular aspect, but presumably there are lots and lots of other aspects (running speed, etc.) which overall balance out. Anecdotally, I grew up in a poor rural area, and of my gifted class (of kids with 130+ IQ), 15% didn't even finish high school. And, I'll estimate that 50% didn't go to college. In fact, of my immediate family (6), all have been gauged as having high IQ. However, I'm the only one that had finished college without help (by 90% luck). And, a couple of my other siblings have now finished college with my financial help. In my experience, location and family are much more important to potential achievement.

Jtsummers 13y ago
We aren't all born with the same fitness level. Nature is not as well balanced as modern MMORPG character classes. EDIT: As a non-biologist, but someone who can't read enough about science, I recommend the writings of either Richard Dawkins or Stephen Jay Gould. Both, actually, since they disagree on a number of points.
- ap22213 13y ago
  Certainly there's enough genetic variation that some will have better fitness within their given environment. But, that's after the fact. It would be presumptuous to think that we can understand all biological and environmental aspects beforehand. Right?
  - Jtsummers 13y ago
    It would be presumptuous to think we can understand all those aspects, yes. That said, I want to clarify something. When I speak of evolutionary fitness it is not a judgement of the individual regarding their actual value to the species or society. Evolutionary fitness is, really, a cold thing. It only matters whether the individual/species reproduces/survives. The dodo was an evolutionary dead end, even though the cause of extinction was humans, a pressure was applied that the species could not overcome. An individual that does not reproduce is another dead end. We, as a society, may look upon a Harrison Bergeron as the epitome of fitness (mental, physical), but if he's shot down before he can reproduce evolution doesn't care about him, his fitness is nil.
monkeypizza 13y ago
The idea that everyone is born with the same fitness level is rather crazy to me. For one thing there's things like fetal alcohol syndrome, malnourished mothers, radiation damage before birth. But much more than that there are recognized genetic disorders, which at the extremes nobody would say confer the same fitness - down's syndrome etc. Is there any reason to believe that genetic issues obey a distribution where they are either very extreme, or have no effect at all? i.e. if everyone not classifiable as having a really extreme disease is equal? I don't think so. I think it's much more likely that there is a normal distribution of breakdowns in fitness - a few very severe problems which manage to survive to birth, then many, many more variants with negative fitness, or ones which are good but very picky, and which may be left over from environments where they were +fitness. Then there are probably variants which are all-around good. So the idea that we're all born with the same fitness level is a pretty extreme example of invalid "blank slate" type thinking.
mililani 13y ago
Are you talking about physical fitness? Or, reproductive fitness? Based on what you're saying, it seems that "fitness" you're referring to is different than what I'm guessing.

by ap22213 13y ago

Jtsummers 13y ago

We aren't all born with the same fitness level. Nature is not as well balanced as modern MMORPG character classes. EDIT: As a non-biologist, but someone who can't read enough about science, I recommend the writings of either Richard Dawkins or Stephen Jay Gould. Both, actually, since they disagree on a number of points.

ap22213 13y ago
Certainly there's enough genetic variation that some will have better fitness within their given environment. But, that's after the fact. It would be presumptuous to think that we can understand all biological and environmental aspects beforehand. Right?
- Jtsummers 13y ago
  It would be presumptuous to think we can understand all those aspects, yes. That said, I want to clarify something. When I speak of evolutionary fitness it is not a judgement of the individual regarding their actual value to the species or society. Evolutionary fitness is, really, a cold thing. It only matters whether the individual/species reproduces/survives. The dodo was an evolutionary dead end, even though the cause of extinction was humans, a pressure was applied that the species could not overcome. An individual that does not reproduce is another dead end. We, as a society, may look upon a Harrison Bergeron as the epitome of fitness (mental, physical), but if he's shot down before he can reproduce evolution doesn't care about him, his fitness is nil.

monkeypizza 13y ago

The idea that everyone is born with the same fitness level is rather crazy to me. For one thing there's things like fetal alcohol syndrome, malnourished mothers, radiation damage before birth. But much more than that there are recognized genetic disorders, which at the extremes nobody would say confer the same fitness - down's syndrome etc. Is there any reason to believe that genetic issues obey a distribution where they are either very extreme, or have no effect at all? i.e. if everyone not classifiable as having a really extreme disease is equal? I don't think so. I think it's much more likely that there is a normal distribution of breakdowns in fitness - a few very severe problems which manage to survive to birth, then many, many more variants with negative fitness, or ones which are good but very picky, and which may be left over from environments where they were +fitness. Then there are probably variants which are all-around good. So the idea that we're all born with the same fitness level is a pretty extreme example of invalid "blank slate" type thinking.

mililani 13y ago

Are you talking about physical fitness? Or, reproductive fitness? Based on what you're saying, it seems that "fitness" you're referring to is different than what I'm guessing.