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Amazon to deliver by drone? Don't believe the hype

173 points by bloat 13y ago

spo81rty 13y ago
The argument of stealing a package is no different than following around UPS trucks to steal them.
- itchitawa 13y ago
  Yes. There's not much to this article. Same goes for a kid shooting it. It would just like a kid shooting a car or a person. The law provides protection. I suspect regulation will be the biggest obstacle - as it already is in the US.
  - joosters 13y ago
    Actually, this article spotted the real story here. It's just PR for Amazon, and very well timed PR at that.
- SandB0x 13y ago
  Except you'd also have to deal with the delivery driver. It's valid to observe that a bored kid may not think much of shooting down a small unmanned quadrotor, whereas they might not be so keen to attack a delivery man or a car containing a delivery man.
  - dangrossman 13y ago
    You wait until the driver leaves. It's safer than stealing from a drone; someone buying air delivery is probably home and might catch you in the act. If the UPS driver left a package at the door and nobody came out for it, the recipient's probably not home.
    - SandB0x 13y ago
      That's why they don't just leave packages on the street, at least not any package I've had delivered by courier in the UK. You have to sign for it otherwise it goes back to the depot and they leave you a note.
      - dangrossman 13y ago
        Must be regional. Whether a signature is required is up to the shipper, and Amazon generally doesn't request one. You could follow a UPS driver around in the US and pick up boxes from in front of doors all day. There are 1700 YouTube videos called "UPS package thief".
        SandB0x 13y ago
        Interesting, thanks for the correction. I don't think the handover issue is a fundamental problem with the drones though. For example you could receive an automated phone call to let you know the package is hovering above your house. If you're ordering something to be delivered in 30 minutes you're probably going to be there to receive it. But I still see theft in transit as an issue. The moral/mental threshold is surely much lower for shooting down a mechanical fly than it is for raiding a van.
        mtrimpe 13y ago
        The threshold for destroying a device costing several thousand dollar which is actively having its location monitored? If a police car is nearby it could be on the scene before the drone even hits the ground and having a few stories of parents getting a giant bill might do the trick.
        jsmcgd 13y ago
        Also I would imagine that the drone could be transmitting a live video feed. Anyone trying to steal/attack the drone would be recorded trying to do so.
        ygra 13y ago
    - waterlesscloud 13y ago
      People are missing that this is "30 minutes or less" delivery, which you're only going to do if you're there.
  - swalsh 13y ago
    Except that it might be considered a federal crime? If I shot down a manned airplane, wouldn't the consequences be severe?
owenmarshall 13y ago
>It's all well and good for the unmanned vehicles to fly to a particular GPS site, but how does it then find the package's intended recipient? The drones could be almost fully automated - fly to this GPS point above the person's house, at which point control is handed to a pilot for the landing & package drop. >How is the transfer of the package enacted? What stops someone else stealing the package along the way? I'd imagine the same way it's done today, the same way USPS/UPS handles packages - by dropping them on my porch and hoping my neighbors are honest. >And what happens when next door's kid decides to shoot the drone with his BB rifle? He gets a spanking and the drone gets repaired? The same thing that would happen if he shot the tires off the Fedex truck? This article raises some good points about the political ramifications of drone technology, and some excellent ones about it being a PR move to squelch negative reporting, but I'm left with the feeling that, if he were alive a century ago, James Ball wouldn't be out of place writing an article titled "Sears & Roebuck to stop horse-drawn carriage delivery in favor of the automobile? Don't believe the hype".
- ye 13y ago
  > at which point control is handed to a pilot for the landing & package drop So now you have to put a camera and a remote control system with a range of many miles on the drone. And it can only work if there's a line of sight. Fail.
  - owenmarshall 13y ago
    >So now you have to put a camera and a remote control system with a range of many miles on the drone. And it can only work if there's a line of sight. Pack it in, boys. Until someone develops some sort of wireless technology which we could use to receive information from the drone as well as control it, and deploys it widely across high population-density areas, this drone idea just won't be feasible.
    - ye 13y ago
      You didn't address the weight and the power requirements for it. The range of the drones is already horrible. The costs of controlling drones over the wireless networks would be pretty high too.
rottyguy 13y ago
They're trying to solve a very real problem for their industry. I would also point out that others may want to get involved. To wit: Google mainstreamed the idea of automating cars yet mercedez, bmw, etc. will probably beat them to the punch en masse. Whether amazon solves it or walmart/target/USPS/FedEx/UPS/etc. we all win.
deleted 13y ago
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TazeTSchnitzel 13y ago
Heh, even HN seemed to fall for it.
balakk 13y ago
There are things that you see as hype, and dismiss them. And then there is hype, which you desperately want to be true. Somebody will figure out a way.
venomsnake 13y ago
And that kids is how we will revolutionize the drug smuggling ... even if amazon don't deliver. Or any smuggling for low weight high price items.
- gvb 13y ago
  Like trying to smuggle cigarettes into a prison? http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/27/21645567-drone-tries-to-sneak-contraband-into-georgia-prison http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/27/21645567-...
qq66 13y ago
I love how The Guardian thinks that in six hours it can think of several dealbreaker problems that Amazon hasn't thought of in six months.
- frabcus 13y ago
  That's not what's going on - it's a PR battle about what the story about Amazon is on Cyber Monday. Is it anti-competitively avoiding tax, poor working conditions, or drones?
- coldtea 13y ago
  >I love how The Guardian thinks that in six hours it can think of several dealbreaker problems that Amazon hasn't thought of in six months. No, what they actually think is that in six hours they can think of several dealbreaker problems that Amazon has also thought of but doesn't care about, because it's a publicity stunt.
frabcus 13y ago
The important part is at the end: "Bezos' neat trick has knocked several real stories about Amazon out of the way. Last week's Panorama investigation into Amazon's working and hiring practices, suggesting that the site's employees had an increased risk of mental illness, is the latest in a long line of pieces about the company's working conditions – zero-hour contracts, short breaks, and employees' every move tracked by internal systems. Amazon's drone debacle also moved discussion of its tax bill – another long-running controversy, sparked by the Guardian's revelation last year that the company had UK sales of £7bn but paid no UK corporation tax – to the margins."
- icebraining 13y ago
  Yeah, we've seen how those stories affected their Black Friday sales, before the 60 Minutes episode: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/10485833/Amazon-reports-record-breaking-Black-Friday.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandcon...
  - Brakenshire 13y ago
    Reputational damage operates over much longer timescales.
davidw 13y ago
It would not be that hard to write an app to authenticate the person picking up the package to the drone. You don't know when the UPS guy is going to show up, but presumably, with this system, it's fast enough that you will be right where the order is dropped off.
Tarang 13y ago
What I'm finding weird is that the skepticism over droned delivery feels like its more than the scope of Amazon.com, the world's largest internet retailer with super cheap prices, being able to deliver stuff via drones within 30 minutes. Doesn't that count for being anything sublime? Would it be unpredictable that USPS/Fedex/DHL start doing something like it too?
SyneRyder 13y ago
I find it strange that The Guardian wants to call Amazon's effort a publicity stunt, but when a Sydney company announced plans for the world's first Book-delivery-by-drone back in October, The Guardian was happy to run that story without any skepticism: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/15/drone-book-delivery-service-students http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/15/drone-book-deli...
- wavefunction 13y ago
  Why not just use digital versions of the textbooks? I like physical books over "ebooks" but it seems like an incredibly wasteful service to shuttle around physical textbooks. As far as why the difference in coverage? I would guess that a company like Amazon generally announces these sorts of initiatives when they're pretty much available, which makes the "earliest in 2015" bit turn this into a big PR stunt imo.
renderfail 13y ago
Cats...
downandout 13y ago
If you read the article to the end, you realize that the author has big problems with Amazon, but they have nothing to do with drones. He is using an uptick in publicity about Amazon to voice his opposition to Amazon's business practices. As to the issues he raised with the idea itself, the reality is that every single one of the issues will be resolved. This type of delivery, along with privately owned drones carrying out mundane tasks that would normally have us driving around town, is our future. It will happen, the only question is when.
- SideburnsOfDoom 13y ago
  > He is using an uptick in publicity about Amazon to voice his opposition to Amazon's business practices. Does this refute his claim that Amazon are using an uptick in publicity to hide opposition to Amazon's business practices?
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - downandout 13y ago
    I wasn't refuting anything. Just stating a fact: this author is clearly not making impartial judgments about the company. His objections appear to have more to do with his anti-Amazon feelings than anything else.
DrinkWater 13y ago
Amazon Stock is doing pretty pretty pretty good after this "drone news".
pvnick 13y ago
There are some people that only see downsides, that compulsively expect failures. We call them nay-sayers. You want a handful of them in your organization, especially in tech, since they keep your head out of the clouds. But too often they tend to be averse to innovation and derail progress. James Ball, the author of the article, seems to be one of those people. On October 9, 1903, two months before the Wright brothers flew for the first time, the New York times declared "The ridiculous fiasco which attended the attempt at aerial navigation in the Langley flying machine was not unexpected… it might be assumed that the flying machine which will really fly might be evolved by the combined and continuous efforts of mathematicians and mechanicians in from one million to ten million years" [1] I imagine someone like James Ball wrote that article, too. [1] http://www.skygod.com/quotes/times1903.pdf http://www.skygod.com/quotes/times1903.pdf edit: rmc indicated I wrote date as 2013, fixed to 1903
- SandB0x 13y ago
  Come on, this is a complete straw man. The article is not saying it's physically impossible, because clearly it isn't, it's saying there are legal and logistical problems to consider. Plus, following your argument you could swat away any criticism of any outlandish claim by saying that people once thought the world was flat. Hardly constructive. Not that there are any claims of this magnitude by Amazon or in this article.
  - watty 13y ago
    Well the main point of the article was "it's all hot air and baloney". His logistical issues seem like he's grasping for anything he can to discredit the idea. With his added sarcasm ("any second now"), I'd put him in the exact same camp as the NY Times writer.
    - frogpelt 13y ago
      No, he's not grasping. He didn't called it "hot air and baloney" because he thinks it would never physically work. He called it that because he believes it was timed to coincide with Cyber Monday. The bureaucratic hurdles for this are too numerous to mention. It goes in the Hyperloop-from-LA-to-NYC category. I doubt he's missed the mark since there's not many other logical reasons for Amazon to announce this possibility five years in advance. It's Amazon.com marketing hype. Go buy something.
The_Double 13y ago
As someone who builds these for a hobby, the biggest problem is battery life and range. The battery life life of the craft is determined by the weight/battery capacity ratio. Since is hardly any aerodynamics, the multicopter is constantly fighting the force of gravity by delivering an equal force using its motors and props. An optimistic range estimate for current batteries would be about 10 mi, but the craft would also have to return, so make that 5mi. Now imagine what happens when you attach a payload to it. Regulations may change, and flight controlers keep getting better, but batteries would need significant improvement for this to become viable.
- jsmcgd 13y ago
  If range is a problem (and I have to assume that Bezos and team are aware of the performance characteristics of current/near term drone tech) they don't have to limit themselves to batteries.
geetee 13y ago
The amount of idea-bashing coming out against this Amazon drone concept is astonishing. Aren't we supposed to the be champions of the future? Do you think for a second that your nail-in-the-coffin counterpoint hasn't already been brought up around the meeting table? Can't we focus on how instead of why not?
- mgunes 13y ago
  > Aren't we supposed to be the champions of the future? If you mean as "hackers", to pick a word from the name of this website, who were for a long time, rightly or wrongly, supposed to be conscientious watchdogs of present and future technology, no. If for no other reason, as technologists who witnessed Stallman, Assange, Bradley, Snowden, so on in their lifetimes, you're supposed to be first and foremost astute critics of the future that dominant forces of the realm of technology such as Amazon are aiming to build. And rather than enthusiastically applaud whatever new and possibly exciting technology they bring to the table that contributes to your present or future paycheck and their private profit, you're supposed to take political responsibility for the future you help build by being their employees, customers and unpaid evangelists.
  - geetee 13y ago
    We're talking about delivering packages, not stealing your privacy or freedom. Now, I'm sure we can think up ways on how it can be used for evil, but that hasn't been the focus of all the negativity. Landing on small children and having your packages stolen are hardly concerns I'd associate with names like Stallman, Assange, Bradley, and Snowden.
    - mgunes 13y ago
      I was commenting in a general sense, on the notion I quoted, of which the current discussion is a mere symptom; not specifically about Amazon or package delivery. Yet the point is: when a technology giant talks about delivering packages in a new and technologically novel, yet questionable way, we shouldn't be talking about delivering packages; we should be talking in a broader sense about the political and economical implications of that new way, and how it's going to affect people in the foreseeable future. The notion of being unquestioning "champions of the future" is a general trait of most HN participants, and in direct contrast to what you problematize, what I find problematic is the great wave of instant enthusiasm we're seeing among so-called "hackers" for Amazon's stated intentions.
sambeau 13y ago
Here's how I would do it: I'd sell/give away clip-on baskets with a fat QR-code or similar imprinted on the inside bottom (or with embedded iBeacon-like-tech or even infrared lights similar to the Wii) to all customers who want to use this service and ask them to attach it to a window-sill, preferably upstairs or to the the back of the house. This would allow the copter to make a secure drop. As the copters are weight-limited anyway the baskets could also be. It's also worth noting that as this service is for urgent items (why else would you pay extra for a 30 min service) why would you need to worry about the recipient being out? With GPS built-into mobile phones, 4G internet, bluetooth and iBeacon-like tech you could inform the recipient just before delivery or even better and it directly to them (or a special basket placed on the ground).
TeeWEE 13y ago
I believe this is possible. Just look at these autonomous drones doing stunts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvRTALJp8DM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvRTALJp8DM Delivering a packet is much easier than the stuff the are doing in this vid.
- sambeau 13y ago
  Those drones aren't fully-autonomous they are flying in an intelligent room with cameras and special lights attached to the walls. The control computers are also not on-board.
fidotron 13y ago
This is a mixture of the Guardian being stereotypically British, seeing the problems in everything, and ignoring the vast suburban reality of much of the US, where the problems would be smaller and the idea that much more practical, even if it's not necessarily easy. It clearly is inevitable that at some point things will be delivered in this manner, but simply whining about it in this way is just an attempt to take away from anyone that tries to make progress, because heaven help the Guardian if they ever acknowledge someone in the private sector contributing to the advance of humanity.
jusben1369 13y ago
Wow. Obnoxious on multiple levels: "Amazon's drone debacle also moved discussion of its tax bill – another long-running controversy, sparked by the Guardian's revelation last year that the company had UK sales of £7bn but paid no UK corporation tax " - Introducing your own newspaper into the debate negates any chance you have that this is in impartial journalistic piece. Secondly, I doubt Bezos is thinking about some UK tax noise when deciding whether or not to discuss drone's with 60 minutes. "It's too late for the clickfarms already. But outlets and journalists who'd like to think of themselves as serious must stop regurgitating this crap. And, even more importantly, you,concerned citizen, must try to stop clicking on it." - Let me lecture both my peers and my audience on how they need to behave. I'm uniquely qualified to do this because........well for no real reason actually except a heightened sense of self worth. Hack job.
- bloat 13y ago
  Note that this article is in the Guardian's Comment Is Free section, which is precisely for editorializing and putting forth personal opinions.
  - jusben1369 13y ago
    Thanks. I was just thinking of the author vs the paper but point worth noting.
spiritplumber 13y ago
I will do this for my business ( www.f3.to ) before the year is out, commercially. Please mark this post and call bullshit on me if I don't.
Zoomla 13y ago
I think it would be cheaper and easier to have only a couple warehouses in space/orbit.
deleted 13y ago
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basyt 13y ago
I am not trying to be obstructive or distract the discussion - but it occurs to me that anyone can shoot down the drone and retrieve valuable artifacts that are being transported. How would you safeguard against that?
savrajsingh 13y ago
He's definitely right about the timing of the announcement. Well timed for sure.
zobzu 13y ago
Doesn't matter what articles say. This stuff isn't happening any time soon (or any time at all may be). I'm surprised the general population is inclined to believe such bullshit - in fact I'm surprised Amazon themselves are inclined to believe it. Flying by "drone" is: - more expensive - not reliable (at all) - prone to theft (of the drone, not the package, mind you) - doesn't work at all in bad weather - less efficient than current delivery methods - easy & fun to circumvent (oh crap someone killed the 1300mhz range, our 10 000 drones just fell off the sky, military style, QUICK NEWS STORY) it goes on and on, forever, literally... if anything I think automated driving cars are easier to get right.
- TillE 13y ago
  Precisely. Aside from the "wow cool" factor, this will never be anywhere near the best option in any place that has drivable roads.
mentos 13y ago
I'd love to see some sort of crowd sourced solution for this system where Amazon offers up what it sees as the biggest technical/legal limitations and asks the internet for its solutions. So far in just the HN threads, I've read some pretty innovative ideas (QR code landing pads that homes can setup for the drones). I'm pretty sure with the hive mind of the internet this problem can be solved by the collective engineer/lawyer/politician/etc We put men on the moon I think we can put amazon packages in people's backyards!
fijter 13y ago
It would be very cool if they will be able to do this, I've toyed around a bit with multicopters and know a thing or two about the current state of non-military UAV's, here are my thoughts: - They use a octocopter; that's great for the payload, plus it adds some redundancy; If a motor fails the others take over to get back safely without crashing. A bad thing about this is that it's a heavy lift, so more battery drain, so it needs a bigger battery == even more drain. I think you can get 30 minutes of flight time at the max out of that, with a lot of heavy batteries. - Multicopters carrying payloads use powerful electronic motors; You do not want to put a finger near a spinning prop, for safety reasons a UAV within reach of people or animals should always be controlled by a human, what if someone runs up to the package to pick it up and the UAV automatically spins up to return to home? - Auto landing is possible, but might be dangerous; The current systems (for example ArduPilot) use GPS and acc/baro/gyro/compasses to achieve autonomous flight. It works if your in field without trees around you, but the system can't find the best spot to land for you, so you need to land it by hand for this delivery service, controlled by a pilot over FPV (first person, wireless video connection). - Experimental FPV ranges over 10 miles are possible, but not fail proof, especially in a non-line of sight environment or while landing (low to the ground). Hate it to be a nay-sayer, this will have a future but the tech isn't here yet at this moment to accomplish it fully autonomous and safe.
- Crito 13y ago
  > Multicopters carrying payloads use powerful electronic motors; You do not want to put a finger near a spinning prop I wonder if something like SawStop (http://www.sawstop.com/why-sawstop/the-technology http://www.sawstop.com/why-sawstop/the-technology) could be adapted to help with this. Probably not worth the weight I guess.
reuven 13y ago
I'm also surprised that Jeff Bezos, well known for avoiding the press, spotlight, and all interviews, was suddenly being interviewed by a prominent television network. Moreover, Bezos, who almost never talks about products in advance, was talking about something which won't be available for at least several years -- complete with a video demo. I believe that Amazon has been investing time, money, and energy in this delivery-by-drone system. And I'm even excited by this possibility, far-off as it might be, and unlikely to come to my part of the world (i.e., Israel) in the foreseeable future. So this wasn't a just damage-control press tour, as the Guardian author seems to think. But something is going on here, and I can't put my finger on it. Maybe Amazon is just trying to encourage more people to buy from them during the US "holiday shopping period," as it's known. Maybe this is something of an attempt to soften the negative image that Amazon workers' conditions have received lately. (Several of my relatives were talking about it over the weekend, so it has struck a chord with some people.) Maybe it's a "don't hurt us, since we're doing such cool things" image campaign. I'm really not sure. But this does seem rather out of character, and I'm glad that at least someone is raising questions about it.
- unfunco 13y ago
  I don't think Amazon needs to hype up the biggest shopping day of the year, it will likely be a record day of sales for them whatever happens. It's more likely that Amazon has some potential long term logistics contracts with couriers to renew, and they're showing what they could likely be capable of.
guscost 13y ago
It's pretty obvious what is going on here: 1.) The Guardian et al. complain about working conditions at Amazon. 2.) Amazon puts out PR hinting that many of those workers will be replaced by automation before too long. 3.) The Guardian says it's just shopping season hype to distract from the working conditions and such. Basically Amazon just called their bluff, and is now under pressure to deliver some seriously impressive results. How can a reporter complain about working conditions for drones? Will they go full-on Luddite and try to blame Amazon for destroying jobs? This should be interesting.
joering2 13y ago
First and foremost, if Amazon Drones deliver within 10 miles radius in 2018, why on Earth won't you let me drive to your facility (10 miles) and then pickup my crap personally? Just build a platform you drive by you punch your order number, confirm it then a basket with my junk drives by to the front. No need to wait 5 years to make my life much easier. Second of all, you wont see the air being open to commercial solutions until the government is done with it. Its just how things work. Neither FAA nor any other government organisation will allow anyone to ask questions why is amazon flying stuff around but yet the streets are not patrolled by unmanned aircrafts? or a fire put out by a team of cooperating drones? Until then (10 years?) Jeff is just advertising himself, a day before cyber Monday (like article is indicating) and as usually he's doing great job!
wglb 13y ago
So I wonder which will first reach practicallity the flying car, as touted by the guardian http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/jan/30/flying-car-terrafugia-transition-aircraft http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/jan/30/flying-car... or Jeff Bezos? Oh, and here is a 2007 guardian article about flying cars:http://www.theguardian.com/science/2007/aug/31/3 http://www.theguardian.com/science/2007/aug/31/3 And here is an older one poo-pooing the idea: http://www.theguardian.com/science/2005/jun/16/1 http://www.theguardian.com/science/2005/jun/16/1 Now I ask, which is hype and which is journalism?
rpenm 13y ago
Autonomous wheeled delivery would seem to accomplish Amazon's goals with the benefit of reduced cost per lb-mile. Vertical thrust air transport is very inefficient compared to ground transport - more energy is spent maintaining altitude than moving forward. Autonomous ground delivery does suffer from reduced navigational flexibility (anything other than curbside delivery is tricky). But it potentially has lower operating costs and safer failure modes. It may also be easier to integrate into existing regulatory frameworks.
at-fates-hands 13y ago
The article reminded me of all the buzz surrounding the Segway. There was so much buzz, in fact, people had a heyday trying to figure out what it was. Most thought it was some kind of personal flying device - which led to long discussions about the implications and roadblocks such a device would encounter. Which is very similar to having packages delivered via drones. In the end, the Segway hardly lived up to all the hype. I mean, Bezo's himself was quoted as saying, "Cities will be built around these devices." Which should give you a good idea of how masterful he's at over hyping certain things. I now take most of his announcements with a pound of salt, considering his colorful history.
IvyMike 13y ago
Yes, this story, at worst a pie-in-the-sky project of one company, that will fade into the background in a week, this is the thing we should be skeptical about. The consequences if I did "believe the hype" are terrible, I'm sure, although I can't think of a single one right now.
conductr 13y ago
what makes the two events mutually exclusive? If a start-up had done this, they'd write a blog called "how we hacked cyber monday" and the CEO would be your new man-crush, he'd then write an e-book called "PR hacking for profit and more profit", you'd drool when he spoke at the next TED, then a couple years from now your review of the prime air service would be full of OMGs My point is it's a smart move now for the PR and in the future for what this tech could do, one does not damn the other. Amazon has more than proven its tech chops are beyond that of a just a website, combine that with the fact that the copter tech has been advancing on it's own at a fast pace and I think you'd be a fool to bet against Amazon on this one. If they develop the technology, they're not restricted to using it in the USA. Some country will allow them, then it's another issue of the USA lagging behind due to regulations and we'll get it eventually. Bezos was more than transparent about 2015 being the best case scenario and not giving any true expectations. Either way, it's a matter of when, not if.
GauntletWizard 13y ago
The part that strikes me the most about this article: "Opening up crowded urban areas full of terror targets to large numbers of flying platforms is always going to be packed with conflicting interests and difficulties" Yes, because urban areas full of terror targets aren't already full of platforms for weapons delivery. It's not like anyone can strap on a backpack and walk into a crowded mall. Terror is not that real a threat. If you're worried about the terror prospects, you've already lost. Terror has been possible since the invention of explosives. Most people are friendly and cooperative, and do not value random acts of violence. Real work to combat terror involves improving the lives of marginalized people, and hunting down the few rabid dogs that are spreading their disease.
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hexagonc 13y ago
Not sure why people are fixating on autonomous drones. If this happens at all, the first drones will clearly be human controlled from the point they leave the warehouse to when they reach the delivery zone. They will be teleoperated and probably armed with a speaker and microphone so that the operator can speak to the recipient. There will be multiple cameras so if someone is interfering or trying to steal the payload, their face can be recorded so that they can be reported to the authorities. Unless there is extremely high winds or precipitation, weather doesn't have to be that huge a limiting factor either. Pointing out the problems of autonomous aerial navigation in this case is irrelevant.
roin 13y ago
It's disappointing to read all this negativity around the drone delivery story. Who knows if this will happen as soon as they claim, but it is a cool idea with a lot of genuinely interesting implications. The fact that Amazon is trying to generate good PR is a tangental story in my opinion, and I wonder if investing in a drone delivery program just to show it off would be the most cost effective way to get good press. I am also very unimpressed with the challenges that Mr. Ball identified. He probably had fun fashioning himself as some kind of technology muckraker, but please go after uninspired technology instead of taking easy shots at interesting and bold ideas.

173 points by bloat 13y ago

spo81rty 13y ago

The argument of stealing a package is no different than following around UPS trucks to steal them.

itchitawa 13y ago
Yes. There's not much to this article. Same goes for a kid shooting it. It would just like a kid shooting a car or a person. The law provides protection. I suspect regulation will be the biggest obstacle - as it already is in the US.
- joosters 13y ago
  Actually, this article spotted the real story here. It's just PR for Amazon, and very well timed PR at that.
SandB0x 13y ago
Except you'd also have to deal with the delivery driver. It's valid to observe that a bored kid may not think much of shooting down a small unmanned quadrotor, whereas they might not be so keen to attack a delivery man or a car containing a delivery man.
- dangrossman 13y ago
  You wait until the driver leaves. It's safer than stealing from a drone; someone buying air delivery is probably home and might catch you in the act. If the UPS driver left a package at the door and nobody came out for it, the recipient's probably not home.
  - SandB0x 13y ago
    That's why they don't just leave packages on the street, at least not any package I've had delivered by courier in the UK. You have to sign for it otherwise it goes back to the depot and they leave you a note.
    - dangrossman 13y ago
      Must be regional. Whether a signature is required is up to the shipper, and Amazon generally doesn't request one. You could follow a UPS driver around in the US and pick up boxes from in front of doors all day. There are 1700 YouTube videos called "UPS package thief".
      - SandB0x 13y ago
        Interesting, thanks for the correction. I don't think the handover issue is a fundamental problem with the drones though. For example you could receive an automated phone call to let you know the package is hovering above your house. If you're ordering something to be delivered in 30 minutes you're probably going to be there to receive it. But I still see theft in transit as an issue. The moral/mental threshold is surely much lower for shooting down a mechanical fly than it is for raiding a van.
        mtrimpe 13y ago
        The threshold for destroying a device costing several thousand dollar which is actively having its location monitored? If a police car is nearby it could be on the scene before the drone even hits the ground and having a few stories of parents getting a giant bill might do the trick.
        jsmcgd 13y ago
        Also I would imagine that the drone could be transmitting a live video feed. Anyone trying to steal/attack the drone would be recorded trying to do so.
      - ygra 13y ago
  - waterlesscloud 13y ago
    People are missing that this is "30 minutes or less" delivery, which you're only going to do if you're there.
- swalsh 13y ago
  Except that it might be considered a federal crime? If I shot down a manned airplane, wouldn't the consequences be severe?

owenmarshall 13y ago

>It's all well and good for the unmanned vehicles to fly to a particular GPS site, but how does it then find the package's intended recipient? The drones could be almost fully automated - fly to this GPS point above the person's house, at which point control is handed to a pilot for the landing & package drop. >How is the transfer of the package enacted? What stops someone else stealing the package along the way? I'd imagine the same way it's done today, the same way USPS/UPS handles packages - by dropping them on my porch and hoping my neighbors are honest. >And what happens when next door's kid decides to shoot the drone with his BB rifle? He gets a spanking and the drone gets repaired? The same thing that would happen if he shot the tires off the Fedex truck? This article raises some good points about the political ramifications of drone technology, and some excellent ones about it being a PR move to squelch negative reporting, but I'm left with the feeling that, if he were alive a century ago, James Ball wouldn't be out of place writing an article titled "Sears & Roebuck to stop horse-drawn carriage delivery in favor of the automobile? Don't believe the hype".

ye 13y ago
> at which point control is handed to a pilot for the landing & package drop So now you have to put a camera and a remote control system with a range of many miles on the drone. And it can only work if there's a line of sight. Fail.
- owenmarshall 13y ago
  >So now you have to put a camera and a remote control system with a range of many miles on the drone. And it can only work if there's a line of sight. Pack it in, boys. Until someone develops some sort of wireless technology which we could use to receive information from the drone as well as control it, and deploys it widely across high population-density areas, this drone idea just won't be feasible.
  - ye 13y ago
    You didn't address the weight and the power requirements for it. The range of the drones is already horrible. The costs of controlling drones over the wireless networks would be pretty high too.

rottyguy 13y ago

They're trying to solve a very real problem for their industry. I would also point out that others may want to get involved. To wit: Google mainstreamed the idea of automating cars yet mercedez, bmw, etc. will probably beat them to the punch en masse. Whether amazon solves it or walmart/target/USPS/FedEx/UPS/etc. we all win.

deleted 13y ago

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TazeTSchnitzel 13y ago

Heh, even HN seemed to fall for it.

balakk 13y ago

There are things that you see as hype, and dismiss them. And then there is hype, which you desperately want to be true. Somebody will figure out a way.

venomsnake 13y ago

And that kids is how we will revolutionize the drug smuggling ... even if amazon don't deliver. Or any smuggling for low weight high price items.

gvb 13y ago
Like trying to smuggle cigarettes into a prison? http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/27/21645567-drone-tries-to-sneak-contraband-into-georgia-prison http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/27/21645567-...

qq66 13y ago

I love how The Guardian thinks that in six hours it can think of several dealbreaker problems that Amazon hasn't thought of in six months.

frabcus 13y ago
That's not what's going on - it's a PR battle about what the story about Amazon is on Cyber Monday. Is it anti-competitively avoiding tax, poor working conditions, or drones?
coldtea 13y ago
>I love how The Guardian thinks that in six hours it can think of several dealbreaker problems that Amazon hasn't thought of in six months. No, what they actually think is that in six hours they can think of several dealbreaker problems that Amazon has also thought of but doesn't care about, because it's a publicity stunt.

frabcus 13y ago

The important part is at the end: "Bezos' neat trick has knocked several real stories about Amazon out of the way. Last week's Panorama investigation into Amazon's working and hiring practices, suggesting that the site's employees had an increased risk of mental illness, is the latest in a long line of pieces about the company's working conditions – zero-hour contracts, short breaks, and employees' every move tracked by internal systems. Amazon's drone debacle also moved discussion of its tax bill – another long-running controversy, sparked by the Guardian's revelation last year that the company had UK sales of £7bn but paid no UK corporation tax – to the margins."

icebraining 13y ago
Yeah, we've seen how those stories affected their Black Friday sales, before the 60 Minutes episode: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/10485833/Amazon-reports-record-breaking-Black-Friday.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandcon...
- Brakenshire 13y ago
  Reputational damage operates over much longer timescales.

davidw 13y ago

It would not be that hard to write an app to authenticate the person picking up the package to the drone. You don't know when the UPS guy is going to show up, but presumably, with this system, it's fast enough that you will be right where the order is dropped off.

Tarang 13y ago

What I'm finding weird is that the skepticism over droned delivery feels like its more than the scope of Amazon.com, the world's largest internet retailer with super cheap prices, being able to deliver stuff via drones within 30 minutes. Doesn't that count for being anything sublime? Would it be unpredictable that USPS/Fedex/DHL start doing something like it too?

SyneRyder 13y ago

I find it strange that The Guardian wants to call Amazon's effort a publicity stunt, but when a Sydney company announced plans for the world's first Book-delivery-by-drone back in October, The Guardian was happy to run that story without any skepticism: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/15/drone-book-delivery-service-students http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/15/drone-book-deli...

wavefunction 13y ago
Why not just use digital versions of the textbooks? I like physical books over "ebooks" but it seems like an incredibly wasteful service to shuttle around physical textbooks. As far as why the difference in coverage? I would guess that a company like Amazon generally announces these sorts of initiatives when they're pretty much available, which makes the "earliest in 2015" bit turn this into a big PR stunt imo.

renderfail 13y ago

Cats...

downandout 13y ago

If you read the article to the end, you realize that the author has big problems with Amazon, but they have nothing to do with drones. He is using an uptick in publicity about Amazon to voice his opposition to Amazon's business practices. As to the issues he raised with the idea itself, the reality is that every single one of the issues will be resolved. This type of delivery, along with privately owned drones carrying out mundane tasks that would normally have us driving around town, is our future. It will happen, the only question is when.

SideburnsOfDoom 13y ago
> He is using an uptick in publicity about Amazon to voice his opposition to Amazon's business practices. Does this refute his claim that Amazon are using an uptick in publicity to hide opposition to Amazon's business practices?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- downandout 13y ago
  I wasn't refuting anything. Just stating a fact: this author is clearly not making impartial judgments about the company. His objections appear to have more to do with his anti-Amazon feelings than anything else.

DrinkWater 13y ago

Amazon Stock is doing pretty pretty pretty good after this "drone news".

pvnick 13y ago

There are some people that only see downsides, that compulsively expect failures. We call them nay-sayers. You want a handful of them in your organization, especially in tech, since they keep your head out of the clouds. But too often they tend to be averse to innovation and derail progress. James Ball, the author of the article, seems to be one of those people. On October 9, 1903, two months before the Wright brothers flew for the first time, the New York times declared "The ridiculous fiasco which attended the attempt at aerial navigation in the Langley flying machine was not unexpected… it might be assumed that the flying machine which will really fly might be evolved by the combined and continuous efforts of mathematicians and mechanicians in from one million to ten million years" [1] I imagine someone like James Ball wrote that article, too. [1] http://www.skygod.com/quotes/times1903.pdf http://www.skygod.com/quotes/times1903.pdf edit: rmc indicated I wrote date as 2013, fixed to 1903

SandB0x 13y ago
Come on, this is a complete straw man. The article is not saying it's physically impossible, because clearly it isn't, it's saying there are legal and logistical problems to consider. Plus, following your argument you could swat away any criticism of any outlandish claim by saying that people once thought the world was flat. Hardly constructive. Not that there are any claims of this magnitude by Amazon or in this article.
- watty 13y ago
  Well the main point of the article was "it's all hot air and baloney". His logistical issues seem like he's grasping for anything he can to discredit the idea. With his added sarcasm ("any second now"), I'd put him in the exact same camp as the NY Times writer.
  - frogpelt 13y ago
    No, he's not grasping. He didn't called it "hot air and baloney" because he thinks it would never physically work. He called it that because he believes it was timed to coincide with Cyber Monday. The bureaucratic hurdles for this are too numerous to mention. It goes in the Hyperloop-from-LA-to-NYC category. I doubt he's missed the mark since there's not many other logical reasons for Amazon to announce this possibility five years in advance. It's Amazon.com marketing hype. Go buy something.

The_Double 13y ago

As someone who builds these for a hobby, the biggest problem is battery life and range. The battery life life of the craft is determined by the weight/battery capacity ratio. Since is hardly any aerodynamics, the multicopter is constantly fighting the force of gravity by delivering an equal force using its motors and props. An optimistic range estimate for current batteries would be about 10 mi, but the craft would also have to return, so make that 5mi. Now imagine what happens when you attach a payload to it. Regulations may change, and flight controlers keep getting better, but batteries would need significant improvement for this to become viable.

jsmcgd 13y ago
If range is a problem (and I have to assume that Bezos and team are aware of the performance characteristics of current/near term drone tech) they don't have to limit themselves to batteries.

geetee 13y ago

The amount of idea-bashing coming out against this Amazon drone concept is astonishing. Aren't we supposed to the be champions of the future? Do you think for a second that your nail-in-the-coffin counterpoint hasn't already been brought up around the meeting table? Can't we focus on how instead of why not?

mgunes 13y ago
> Aren't we supposed to be the champions of the future? If you mean as "hackers", to pick a word from the name of this website, who were for a long time, rightly or wrongly, supposed to be conscientious watchdogs of present and future technology, no. If for no other reason, as technologists who witnessed Stallman, Assange, Bradley, Snowden, so on in their lifetimes, you're supposed to be first and foremost astute critics of the future that dominant forces of the realm of technology such as Amazon are aiming to build. And rather than enthusiastically applaud whatever new and possibly exciting technology they bring to the table that contributes to your present or future paycheck and their private profit, you're supposed to take political responsibility for the future you help build by being their employees, customers and unpaid evangelists.
- geetee 13y ago
  We're talking about delivering packages, not stealing your privacy or freedom. Now, I'm sure we can think up ways on how it can be used for evil, but that hasn't been the focus of all the negativity. Landing on small children and having your packages stolen are hardly concerns I'd associate with names like Stallman, Assange, Bradley, and Snowden.
  - mgunes 13y ago
    I was commenting in a general sense, on the notion I quoted, of which the current discussion is a mere symptom; not specifically about Amazon or package delivery. Yet the point is: when a technology giant talks about delivering packages in a new and technologically novel, yet questionable way, we shouldn't be talking about delivering packages; we should be talking in a broader sense about the political and economical implications of that new way, and how it's going to affect people in the foreseeable future. The notion of being unquestioning "champions of the future" is a general trait of most HN participants, and in direct contrast to what you problematize, what I find problematic is the great wave of instant enthusiasm we're seeing among so-called "hackers" for Amazon's stated intentions.

sambeau 13y ago

Here's how I would do it: I'd sell/give away clip-on baskets with a fat QR-code or similar imprinted on the inside bottom (or with embedded iBeacon-like-tech or even infrared lights similar to the Wii) to all customers who want to use this service and ask them to attach it to a window-sill, preferably upstairs or to the the back of the house. This would allow the copter to make a secure drop. As the copters are weight-limited anyway the baskets could also be. It's also worth noting that as this service is for urgent items (why else would you pay extra for a 30 min service) why would you need to worry about the recipient being out? With GPS built-into mobile phones, 4G internet, bluetooth and iBeacon-like tech you could inform the recipient just before delivery or even better and it directly to them (or a special basket placed on the ground).

TeeWEE 13y ago

I believe this is possible. Just look at these autonomous drones doing stunts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvRTALJp8DM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvRTALJp8DM Delivering a packet is much easier than the stuff the are doing in this vid.

sambeau 13y ago
Those drones aren't fully-autonomous they are flying in an intelligent room with cameras and special lights attached to the walls. The control computers are also not on-board.

fidotron 13y ago

This is a mixture of the Guardian being stereotypically British, seeing the problems in everything, and ignoring the vast suburban reality of much of the US, where the problems would be smaller and the idea that much more practical, even if it's not necessarily easy. It clearly is inevitable that at some point things will be delivered in this manner, but simply whining about it in this way is just an attempt to take away from anyone that tries to make progress, because heaven help the Guardian if they ever acknowledge someone in the private sector contributing to the advance of humanity.

jusben1369 13y ago

Wow. Obnoxious on multiple levels: "Amazon's drone debacle also moved discussion of its tax bill – another long-running controversy, sparked by the Guardian's revelation last year that the company had UK sales of £7bn but paid no UK corporation tax " - Introducing your own newspaper into the debate negates any chance you have that this is in impartial journalistic piece. Secondly, I doubt Bezos is thinking about some UK tax noise when deciding whether or not to discuss drone's with 60 minutes. "It's too late for the clickfarms already. But outlets and journalists who'd like to think of themselves as serious must stop regurgitating this crap. And, even more importantly, you,concerned citizen, must try to stop clicking on it." - Let me lecture both my peers and my audience on how they need to behave. I'm uniquely qualified to do this because........well for no real reason actually except a heightened sense of self worth. Hack job.

bloat 13y ago
Note that this article is in the Guardian's Comment Is Free section, which is precisely for editorializing and putting forth personal opinions.
- jusben1369 13y ago
  Thanks. I was just thinking of the author vs the paper but point worth noting.

spiritplumber 13y ago

I will do this for my business ( www.f3.to ) before the year is out, commercially. Please mark this post and call bullshit on me if I don't.

Zoomla 13y ago

I think it would be cheaper and easier to have only a couple warehouses in space/orbit.

deleted 13y ago

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basyt 13y ago

I am not trying to be obstructive or distract the discussion - but it occurs to me that anyone can shoot down the drone and retrieve valuable artifacts that are being transported. How would you safeguard against that?

savrajsingh 13y ago

He's definitely right about the timing of the announcement. Well timed for sure.

zobzu 13y ago

Doesn't matter what articles say. This stuff isn't happening any time soon (or any time at all may be). I'm surprised the general population is inclined to believe such bullshit - in fact I'm surprised Amazon themselves are inclined to believe it. Flying by "drone" is: - more expensive - not reliable (at all) - prone to theft (of the drone, not the package, mind you) - doesn't work at all in bad weather - less efficient than current delivery methods - easy & fun to circumvent (oh crap someone killed the 1300mhz range, our 10 000 drones just fell off the sky, military style, QUICK NEWS STORY) it goes on and on, forever, literally... if anything I think automated driving cars are easier to get right.

TillE 13y ago
Precisely. Aside from the "wow cool" factor, this will never be anywhere near the best option in any place that has drivable roads.

mentos 13y ago

I'd love to see some sort of crowd sourced solution for this system where Amazon offers up what it sees as the biggest technical/legal limitations and asks the internet for its solutions. So far in just the HN threads, I've read some pretty innovative ideas (QR code landing pads that homes can setup for the drones). I'm pretty sure with the hive mind of the internet this problem can be solved by the collective engineer/lawyer/politician/etc We put men on the moon I think we can put amazon packages in people's backyards!

fijter 13y ago

It would be very cool if they will be able to do this, I've toyed around a bit with multicopters and know a thing or two about the current state of non-military UAV's, here are my thoughts: - They use a octocopter; that's great for the payload, plus it adds some redundancy; If a motor fails the others take over to get back safely without crashing. A bad thing about this is that it's a heavy lift, so more battery drain, so it needs a bigger battery == even more drain. I think you can get 30 minutes of flight time at the max out of that, with a lot of heavy batteries. - Multicopters carrying payloads use powerful electronic motors; You do not want to put a finger near a spinning prop, for safety reasons a UAV within reach of people or animals should always be controlled by a human, what if someone runs up to the package to pick it up and the UAV automatically spins up to return to home? - Auto landing is possible, but might be dangerous; The current systems (for example ArduPilot) use GPS and acc/baro/gyro/compasses to achieve autonomous flight. It works if your in field without trees around you, but the system can't find the best spot to land for you, so you need to land it by hand for this delivery service, controlled by a pilot over FPV (first person, wireless video connection). - Experimental FPV ranges over 10 miles are possible, but not fail proof, especially in a non-line of sight environment or while landing (low to the ground). Hate it to be a nay-sayer, this will have a future but the tech isn't here yet at this moment to accomplish it fully autonomous and safe.

Crito 13y ago
> Multicopters carrying payloads use powerful electronic motors; You do not want to put a finger near a spinning prop I wonder if something like SawStop (http://www.sawstop.com/why-sawstop/the-technology http://www.sawstop.com/why-sawstop/the-technology) could be adapted to help with this. Probably not worth the weight I guess.

reuven 13y ago

I'm also surprised that Jeff Bezos, well known for avoiding the press, spotlight, and all interviews, was suddenly being interviewed by a prominent television network. Moreover, Bezos, who almost never talks about products in advance, was talking about something which won't be available for at least several years -- complete with a video demo. I believe that Amazon has been investing time, money, and energy in this delivery-by-drone system. And I'm even excited by this possibility, far-off as it might be, and unlikely to come to my part of the world (i.e., Israel) in the foreseeable future. So this wasn't a just damage-control press tour, as the Guardian author seems to think. But something is going on here, and I can't put my finger on it. Maybe Amazon is just trying to encourage more people to buy from them during the US "holiday shopping period," as it's known. Maybe this is something of an attempt to soften the negative image that Amazon workers' conditions have received lately. (Several of my relatives were talking about it over the weekend, so it has struck a chord with some people.) Maybe it's a "don't hurt us, since we're doing such cool things" image campaign. I'm really not sure. But this does seem rather out of character, and I'm glad that at least someone is raising questions about it.

unfunco 13y ago
I don't think Amazon needs to hype up the biggest shopping day of the year, it will likely be a record day of sales for them whatever happens. It's more likely that Amazon has some potential long term logistics contracts with couriers to renew, and they're showing what they could likely be capable of.

guscost 13y ago

It's pretty obvious what is going on here: 1.) The Guardian et al. complain about working conditions at Amazon. 2.) Amazon puts out PR hinting that many of those workers will be replaced by automation before too long. 3.) The Guardian says it's just shopping season hype to distract from the working conditions and such. Basically Amazon just called their bluff, and is now under pressure to deliver some seriously impressive results. How can a reporter complain about working conditions for drones? Will they go full-on Luddite and try to blame Amazon for destroying jobs? This should be interesting.

joering2 13y ago

First and foremost, if Amazon Drones deliver within 10 miles radius in 2018, why on Earth won't you let me drive to your facility (10 miles) and then pickup my crap personally? Just build a platform you drive by you punch your order number, confirm it then a basket with my junk drives by to the front. No need to wait 5 years to make my life much easier. Second of all, you wont see the air being open to commercial solutions until the government is done with it. Its just how things work. Neither FAA nor any other government organisation will allow anyone to ask questions why is amazon flying stuff around but yet the streets are not patrolled by unmanned aircrafts? or a fire put out by a team of cooperating drones? Until then (10 years?) Jeff is just advertising himself, a day before cyber Monday (like article is indicating) and as usually he's doing great job!

wglb 13y ago

So I wonder which will first reach practicallity the flying car, as touted by the guardian http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/jan/30/flying-car-terrafugia-transition-aircraft http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/jan/30/flying-car... or Jeff Bezos? Oh, and here is a 2007 guardian article about flying cars:http://www.theguardian.com/science/2007/aug/31/3 http://www.theguardian.com/science/2007/aug/31/3 And here is an older one poo-pooing the idea: http://www.theguardian.com/science/2005/jun/16/1 http://www.theguardian.com/science/2005/jun/16/1 Now I ask, which is hype and which is journalism?

rpenm 13y ago

Autonomous wheeled delivery would seem to accomplish Amazon's goals with the benefit of reduced cost per lb-mile. Vertical thrust air transport is very inefficient compared to ground transport - more energy is spent maintaining altitude than moving forward. Autonomous ground delivery does suffer from reduced navigational flexibility (anything other than curbside delivery is tricky). But it potentially has lower operating costs and safer failure modes. It may also be easier to integrate into existing regulatory frameworks.

at-fates-hands 13y ago

The article reminded me of all the buzz surrounding the Segway. There was so much buzz, in fact, people had a heyday trying to figure out what it was. Most thought it was some kind of personal flying device - which led to long discussions about the implications and roadblocks such a device would encounter. Which is very similar to having packages delivered via drones. In the end, the Segway hardly lived up to all the hype. I mean, Bezo's himself was quoted as saying, "Cities will be built around these devices." Which should give you a good idea of how masterful he's at over hyping certain things. I now take most of his announcements with a pound of salt, considering his colorful history.

IvyMike 13y ago

Yes, this story, at worst a pie-in-the-sky project of one company, that will fade into the background in a week, this is the thing we should be skeptical about. The consequences if I did "believe the hype" are terrible, I'm sure, although I can't think of a single one right now.

conductr 13y ago

what makes the two events mutually exclusive? If a start-up had done this, they'd write a blog called "how we hacked cyber monday" and the CEO would be your new man-crush, he'd then write an e-book called "PR hacking for profit and more profit", you'd drool when he spoke at the next TED, then a couple years from now your review of the prime air service would be full of OMGs My point is it's a smart move now for the PR and in the future for what this tech could do, one does not damn the other. Amazon has more than proven its tech chops are beyond that of a just a website, combine that with the fact that the copter tech has been advancing on it's own at a fast pace and I think you'd be a fool to bet against Amazon on this one. If they develop the technology, they're not restricted to using it in the USA. Some country will allow them, then it's another issue of the USA lagging behind due to regulations and we'll get it eventually. Bezos was more than transparent about 2015 being the best case scenario and not giving any true expectations. Either way, it's a matter of when, not if.

GauntletWizard 13y ago

The part that strikes me the most about this article: "Opening up crowded urban areas full of terror targets to large numbers of flying platforms is always going to be packed with conflicting interests and difficulties" Yes, because urban areas full of terror targets aren't already full of platforms for weapons delivery. It's not like anyone can strap on a backpack and walk into a crowded mall. Terror is not that real a threat. If you're worried about the terror prospects, you've already lost. Terror has been possible since the invention of explosives. Most people are friendly and cooperative, and do not value random acts of violence. Real work to combat terror involves improving the lives of marginalized people, and hunting down the few rabid dogs that are spreading their disease.

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hexagonc 13y ago

Not sure why people are fixating on autonomous drones. If this happens at all, the first drones will clearly be human controlled from the point they leave the warehouse to when they reach the delivery zone. They will be teleoperated and probably armed with a speaker and microphone so that the operator can speak to the recipient. There will be multiple cameras so if someone is interfering or trying to steal the payload, their face can be recorded so that they can be reported to the authorities. Unless there is extremely high winds or precipitation, weather doesn't have to be that huge a limiting factor either. Pointing out the problems of autonomous aerial navigation in this case is irrelevant.

roin 13y ago

It's disappointing to read all this negativity around the drone delivery story. Who knows if this will happen as soon as they claim, but it is a cool idea with a lot of genuinely interesting implications. The fact that Amazon is trying to generate good PR is a tangental story in my opinion, and I wonder if investing in a drone delivery program just to show it off would be the most cost effective way to get good press. I am also very unimpressed with the challenges that Mr. Ball identified. He probably had fun fashioning himself as some kind of technology muckraker, but please go after uninspired technology instead of taking easy shots at interesting and bold ideas.