thanks for your input. I see what you're saying about the Closure namespaces and function system making more sense. That's what has been attracting me toward it

thanks for your input. I see what you're saying about the Closure namespaces and function system making more sense. That's what has been attracting me toward it, along with some general fondness for the elegance of Clojure. I feel you whole-heartedly about the tangled web of OO. That's why I ultimately chose to leave Rails & start pursuing JVM languages. JVM languages seem to be daunting to Rails/Django folks because of all the "boilerplate, syntax, complexity" but I've found that a lot of the tools are so mature that it is not really such a burden. So yes, as an aspiring programmer who wants to have a reach beyond CRUD, the mystery of Rails & it's "fugly" libs eventually turned me off. Aside from things breaking/slowingdown with every version and needing excessive optimization not to accumulate at the interpreter, I came to the realization that the extra time that would be needed to understand more technologies for the different layers of the application (with Java.... Spring/Hibernate/etc.) there is a gain in that well... you actually understand what is going on rather than this tangled mess. I often had to re-factor code in Rails to kindof fit awkwardly between gems. From studying Javascript I learned a lot about asynchronous/aspect-oriented programming and am pleased to see that these concurrency issues are fundamental to most work that is happening on the JVM. I thought Scala/Play was a healthy medium between these two worlds but I'm starting to understand that maybe one needn't compromise.