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Right now the scariest part about self-driving cars is the corporations making them or governments having access to remotely-controlled "kill-switches" for thes

by salient 13y ago

Right now the scariest part about self-driving cars is the corporations making them or governments having access to remotely-controlled "kill-switches" for these cars. In such a future you wouldn't need to "cut the breaks" to "make it look like an accident" anymore, and doing it like this would be far easier, if strong security measures aren't considered from the start.

MichaelApproved 13y ago
Yours is a paranoid theory. This future you're worried about is just as possible with elevators and yet we don't see it happening. It'll be just as difficult to get away with because of how unusual accidents will be with self driving cars.
- wavefunction 13y ago
  The difference, I think, is that the majority of elevators today rely on mechanical systems for control. Sabotaging a mechanical system in secret is a lot harder than sabotaging a computer-controlled system that is networked to the rest of the world.
- dredmorbius 13y ago
  Elevator accidents are rare (hence: suspicious), people transit them for brief periods of time, usually in the company of others, and it's difficult to known when your intended target is in the elevator to attack them. If you're going to target someone via an elevator attack, you've likely got far more effective and specific vectors which would work. Cars tend to be assigned to specific individuals (permanently, on an ongoing occasional basis for car-share programs, or for a trip duration in the case of dispatched livery) and, well, accidents happen, even with automation (other vehicles, mechanical failures, road or environmental conditions). Moreover, if your intent is to convey someone somewhere, it's a lot easier to do this via an automobile (which can travel anywhere on a paved road and non inconsiderable options on unpaved roads) than in an elevator, which, with the exception of Mr. Wonka's design, tend to follow a rather predictable and limited course. If I were in charge of threat assessment for a VIP/HNWI, I'd very much take this threat into consideration.
alexeisadeski3 13y ago
Why wouldn't the kill switch be in traditional, manual control cars as well?
- philwelch 13y ago
  It already is. Look up OnStar. Built into all GM cars for the past several years.
asdfologist 13y ago
Depending on how the kill-switch is implemented, it might not be that big of a deal, e.g. when the kill-switch is triggered, the vehicle occupants are given a 1-minute warning before the car goes from self-driving to manual driving mode.
lazyjones 13y ago
> In such a future you wouldn't need to "cut the breaks" to "make it look like an accident" anymore, and doing it like this would be far easier, if strong security measures aren't considered from the start. This future is already here to some extent. All they need to do now is to clean up the evidence (remove a plug, or have it self-destruct) after the event. http://www.techradar.com/news/car-tech/delphi-s-new-plug-in-obd2-device-makes-your-car-remote-controlled-1123272 http://www.techradar.com/news/car-tech/delphi-s-new-plug-in-... The OBD2 bus has been around in most vehicles since the late 80's and you can assume that those who need such functionality, have had it for a long time.
saraid216 13y ago
It won't look like an accident when it's the only one that happened in the last year.
- tree_of_item 13y ago
  So there's a political incentive to not make cars entirely safe, even if they're self driving: maintaining plausible deniability for high level criminal activity.
  - saraid216 13y ago
    This is also why your laptops may explode at any time. Just in case.
krapp 13y ago
No, the scariest part is the likelihood that they will be hackable, resulting in cars that essentially steal themselves or kidnap people or 'inconvenience' them while someone breaks into their house. Then there's the degree to which state actors can use them for ubiquitous surveillance and suppression of freedom of movement. The kill switches wouldn't be used to kill people, just round them up or lock them remotely inside their vehicles.

by salient 13y ago

MichaelApproved 13y ago

Yours is a paranoid theory. This future you're worried about is just as possible with elevators and yet we don't see it happening. It'll be just as difficult to get away with because of how unusual accidents will be with self driving cars.

wavefunction 13y ago
The difference, I think, is that the majority of elevators today rely on mechanical systems for control. Sabotaging a mechanical system in secret is a lot harder than sabotaging a computer-controlled system that is networked to the rest of the world.
dredmorbius 13y ago
Elevator accidents are rare (hence: suspicious), people transit them for brief periods of time, usually in the company of others, and it's difficult to known when your intended target is in the elevator to attack them. If you're going to target someone via an elevator attack, you've likely got far more effective and specific vectors which would work. Cars tend to be assigned to specific individuals (permanently, on an ongoing occasional basis for car-share programs, or for a trip duration in the case of dispatched livery) and, well, accidents happen, even with automation (other vehicles, mechanical failures, road or environmental conditions). Moreover, if your intent is to convey someone somewhere, it's a lot easier to do this via an automobile (which can travel anywhere on a paved road and non inconsiderable options on unpaved roads) than in an elevator, which, with the exception of Mr. Wonka's design, tend to follow a rather predictable and limited course. If I were in charge of threat assessment for a VIP/HNWI, I'd very much take this threat into consideration.

alexeisadeski3 13y ago

Why wouldn't the kill switch be in traditional, manual control cars as well?

philwelch 13y ago
It already is. Look up OnStar. Built into all GM cars for the past several years.

asdfologist 13y ago

Depending on how the kill-switch is implemented, it might not be that big of a deal, e.g. when the kill-switch is triggered, the vehicle occupants are given a 1-minute warning before the car goes from self-driving to manual driving mode.

lazyjones 13y ago

> In such a future you wouldn't need to "cut the breaks" to "make it look like an accident" anymore, and doing it like this would be far easier, if strong security measures aren't considered from the start. This future is already here to some extent. All they need to do now is to clean up the evidence (remove a plug, or have it self-destruct) after the event. http://www.techradar.com/news/car-tech/delphi-s-new-plug-in-obd2-device-makes-your-car-remote-controlled-1123272 http://www.techradar.com/news/car-tech/delphi-s-new-plug-in-... The OBD2 bus has been around in most vehicles since the late 80's and you can assume that those who need such functionality, have had it for a long time.

saraid216 13y ago

It won't look like an accident when it's the only one that happened in the last year.

tree_of_item 13y ago
So there's a political incentive to not make cars entirely safe, even if they're self driving: maintaining plausible deniability for high level criminal activity.
- saraid216 13y ago
  This is also why your laptops may explode at any time. Just in case.

krapp 13y ago

No, the scariest part is the likelihood that they will be hackable, resulting in cars that essentially steal themselves or kidnap people or 'inconvenience' them while someone breaks into their house. Then there's the degree to which state actors can use them for ubiquitous surveillance and suppression of freedom of movement. The kill switches wouldn't be used to kill people, just round them up or lock them remotely inside their vehicles.