4 ms·

Of course, it can be embarrassing, but sometimes you are too emotional to not carry it out instantly. This display of humanity should not be frowned upon, but s

Of course, it can be embarrassing, but sometimes you are too emotional to not carry it out instantly. This display of humanity should not be frowned upon, but sympathetically ignored. If a real mental breakdown occurs, we should even get involved and help each other instead of posting it on twitter. Your victim blaming doesn't make it right, it just shows a lack of empathy.

mikeash 13y ago
Are you calling the woman abusing a flight attendant and the couple loudly breaking up on a rooftop "victims", or are you just referring to the more mundane events?
- chromanoid 13y ago
  Of course they are victims. Only because somebody does something, which might be annoying or in case of Diane offending (for the flight personnel), does not mean they become outlawed and can be rightfully, publicly and globally punished for their missteps by anyone who likes to do so. I think you only see black and white instead of the whole spectrum of the human condition.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    I really don't get it, so: victims of what? I'm guessing the answer is something like "public shaming", in which case this does not make sense to me. It's like saying that a person who hits himself on the thumb with a hammer is a victim of assault and battery. They caused their own public shaming when they made a public spectacle of themselves. The tweeters just magnified it. It would have happened even without them.
    - chromanoid 13y ago
      In your example the hammer is controlled by yourself, while there are always other people behind public humiliation. When somebody hits you with the hammer (humiliates you in public), is this your own fault? You really blame the victims here. You say it's their own fault for being picked on, but this is simply not the case. They had a bad day, that does not justify anything. The state is for punishment. Do you blame rape victims for being attractive and for wearing "risky" clothes?
      - mikeash 13y ago
        Well, I'll explain my thinking and maybe you can tell me where you think I got it wrong without resorting to bad analogies involving rape. Public shaming requires two elements: a shameful act, and an audience. The shameful act is usually provided by the person in question. I say "usually" because there are cases where people are shamed for rumors or outright lies. I think we can both agree that, in this case, the person provided it themselves. The audience, in acts usually considered to be "public shaming", is provided by a second party. That is, the shameful act would have been private, but then another party brought it to light by providing an audience. In this case, the audience was already there by virtue of the environment in which the person carried out their shameful act. The tweeters enlarged this audience, but they did not provide it as might have been the case if they had been tweeting a private conversation. Even without them, these people would have still shown their shame to a couple hundred other people. Note that I am not saying they "deserved" this treatment or anything like that, I'm just saying that they made it happen themselves. The people everybody is getting angry at for posting the events weren't even necessary for it.
        chromanoid 13y ago
        In the case of the couple who talk about their relationship on their balcony, there is no audience they realize and no shameful act. Just a private conversation _made_ public. Like somebody photographing you (just you) pissing on a tree without your knowledge. When the photographer publishes this photo in a newspaper it is illegal and unethical. I'm just saying that they made it happen themselves. The people everybody is getting angry at for posting the events weren't even necessary for it. This is were I disagree. Diane behaved badly, but she didn't pick a fight with the whole world. The people who publicize the events are necessary for it. They are essential for the public shaming. Without them it would be just a short story some passengers would have told their families and friends. Something Diane would probably be ok with. By tweeting this, it is like Diane has acted in front of a dozen journalists who take photos while laughing at her. It's a malicious act, like a hidden camera to make everybody laugh at her.
        mikeash 13y ago

mikeash 13y ago

Are you calling the woman abusing a flight attendant and the couple loudly breaking up on a rooftop "victims", or are you just referring to the more mundane events?

chromanoid 13y ago
Of course they are victims. Only because somebody does something, which might be annoying or in case of Diane offending (for the flight personnel), does not mean they become outlawed and can be rightfully, publicly and globally punished for their missteps by anyone who likes to do so. I think you only see black and white instead of the whole spectrum of the human condition.
- mikeash 13y ago
  I really don't get it, so: victims of what? I'm guessing the answer is something like "public shaming", in which case this does not make sense to me. It's like saying that a person who hits himself on the thumb with a hammer is a victim of assault and battery. They caused their own public shaming when they made a public spectacle of themselves. The tweeters just magnified it. It would have happened even without them.
  - chromanoid 13y ago
    In your example the hammer is controlled by yourself, while there are always other people behind public humiliation. When somebody hits you with the hammer (humiliates you in public), is this your own fault? You really blame the victims here. You say it's their own fault for being picked on, but this is simply not the case. They had a bad day, that does not justify anything. The state is for punishment. Do you blame rape victims for being attractive and for wearing "risky" clothes?
    - mikeash 13y ago
      Well, I'll explain my thinking and maybe you can tell me where you think I got it wrong without resorting to bad analogies involving rape. Public shaming requires two elements: a shameful act, and an audience. The shameful act is usually provided by the person in question. I say "usually" because there are cases where people are shamed for rumors or outright lies. I think we can both agree that, in this case, the person provided it themselves. The audience, in acts usually considered to be "public shaming", is provided by a second party. That is, the shameful act would have been private, but then another party brought it to light by providing an audience. In this case, the audience was already there by virtue of the environment in which the person carried out their shameful act. The tweeters enlarged this audience, but they did not provide it as might have been the case if they had been tweeting a private conversation. Even without them, these people would have still shown their shame to a couple hundred other people. Note that I am not saying they "deserved" this treatment or anything like that, I'm just saying that they made it happen themselves. The people everybody is getting angry at for posting the events weren't even necessary for it.
      - chromanoid 13y ago
        In the case of the couple who talk about their relationship on their balcony, there is no audience they realize and no shameful act. Just a private conversation _made_ public. Like somebody photographing you (just you) pissing on a tree without your knowledge. When the photographer publishes this photo in a newspaper it is illegal and unethical. I'm just saying that they made it happen themselves. The people everybody is getting angry at for posting the events weren't even necessary for it. This is were I disagree. Diane behaved badly, but she didn't pick a fight with the whole world. The people who publicize the events are necessary for it. They are essential for the public shaming. Without them it would be just a short story some passengers would have told their families and friends. Something Diane would probably be ok with. By tweeting this, it is like Diane has acted in front of a dozen journalists who take photos while laughing at her. It's a malicious act, like a hidden camera to make everybody laugh at her.
        mikeash 13y ago