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We have these kind of riots in Hungary (pretty close to Ukraine) as well. They are not really revolutions, but they are a good indicator that the people are ext

We have these kind of riots in Hungary (pretty close to Ukraine) as well. They are not really revolutions, but they are a good indicator that the people are extremely fed up with current government policies, which may lead to a revolution. Exciting times to live in, hopefully the people will be able to get rid of the corrupt ruling class. EDIT: Just to give you bit of context on corruption... in the UK where I currently live, politicians are going into prisons for faking a couple of thousands of pounds as expense and profiting from that... A couple of thousands... Compared to that, a couple of years ago, a guy called Bajnai Gordon was the prime minister in Hungary, who is well known by everyone for his act of destroying the whole agricultural economy of eastern Hungary. He did stole all the money from one of the largest companies at the time. Multiple farmers committed suicide, etc. Years after that, he became a prime minister. Truly mind blowing. Those people are evil, and have cheeks, they deserve to spend the rest of their lives in prisons. If you are interested about (the politically correct version of) the story, search for "Hajdu-Bet" here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Bajnai http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Bajnai

rodrigocoelho 13y ago
Yes, 100% agreed, we had the same here in Brazil from June to November: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_protests_in_Brazil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_protests_in_Brazil http://www.cbsnews.com/news/brazil-protests-expand-to-over-one-million-people/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/brazil-protests-expand-to-over-o...
- friendly_chap 13y ago
  People are waking up all over the world. I wish the best for your nation. Never give up.
  - wavefunction 13y ago
    Hopefully it will happen here in the USA as well.
    - friendly_chap 13y ago
      I have high hopes for you Americans. "land of the free and the home of the brave"
    - foobarian 13y ago
      I look forward to Clinton vs. Rice in 2016.
  - crassus 13y ago
    Ask the Arabs how that "waking up" is going for them. Instability is never a good in itself, especially if you don't have a clear alternative to slide in place. Young people have a hard time learning this lesson from history. They just like to see change, but often live to regret it.
twoodfin 13y ago
Exciting times to live in, hopefully the people will be able to get rid of the corrupt ruling class. In democracies, the people typically do this by voting for someone else. Why isn't that an option in Hungary?
- friendly_chap 13y ago
  In "democracies" similar to the Hungarian one you can chose who robs you, there is no good option. They are all the same, maybe one party called A the other B but the same people are behind all parties, and they form a strong inner circle. They just give you an illusion of democracy, really.
  - twoodfin 13y ago
    And yet 64% of Hungary's voters still voted in the supposedly meaningless 2010 elections. Are they all suffering under this illusion? That seems like your first problem to fix.
    - friendly_chap 13y ago
      (Not addressing the fact we have incredible amounts of cheating at elections) People can get really dumb when 98% of their time is spent trying to survive on 200-300 USD a month. Add these facts to that 200-300 USD: - Food is generally more expensive than in the UK - A litre of gasoline costs 2 USD - Electricity and gas prices are more expensive then in the UK - The VAT is 27% etc...
- mhurron 13y ago
  >In democracies, the people typically do this by voting for someone else No, the people think they do this, in reality the new boss is pretty much the same as the old boss.
- drinchev 13y ago
  In eastern-european democracies ( like mine in Bulgaria ) your voting options are limited to parties that has stable corruption background, which pay media and poor citizen to vote for them. In this sense there is no way honest people to get involve in the government affairs, because they lack resources ( money, connections, etc. ) that are needed for wining ( even partly ) elections.
crusso 13y ago
corrupt ruling class That's redundant.
- friendly_chap 13y ago
  They are at the moment, in an ideal world they should not be.
  - crusso 13y ago
    In an ideal world, there would be no ruling class.
    - friendly_chap 13y ago
      That is a fair point and this question is deep enough to be out of scope for HN comments. However, I think there may be a legitimate reason for an existence of a ruling class, or more like "leading class": if that class is accepting people based on their merits, like human decency or intellectual capability.
      - crusso 13y ago
        Leaders in various contexts are fine, but the whole notion of "class" needs to go away. Classes are just constructs of culture, politics, and law that are contrived to keep the people with power in place so they can take advantage of their special status.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
JonnieCache 13y ago
>in the UK where I currently live, politicians are going into prisons for faking a couple of thousands of pounds as expense and profiting from that. Thats more of a distraction than anything else. For the juicy stuff, look into the spending obligations on PFI contracts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_finance_initiative#Development_of_PFI_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_finance_initiative#Dev... https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AtE8tc3zkyCLdFVBNWFGbGdCeVd1YWhkcDRFRFlTaHc&hl=en https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AtE8tc3zkyCLdFVBNWF... http://www.theguardian.com/politics/datablog/2010/nov/19/pfi-public-finance#data http://www.theguardian.com/politics/datablog/2010/nov/19/pfi... The UK does its corruption over the table.
RivieraKid 13y ago
I was under the impression that Viktor Orban and his government - while being critisized from abroad - is actually quite popular? We have a similar problem with corruption and people being fed up here in the Czech Republic. Traditional parties suffered a big defeat in the last parlimentary elections and 3 new parties got into the parliament, so I'm carefully optimistic.

rodrigocoelho 13y ago

Yes, 100% agreed, we had the same here in Brazil from June to November: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_protests_in_Brazil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_protests_in_Brazil http://www.cbsnews.com/news/brazil-protests-expand-to-over-one-million-people/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/brazil-protests-expand-to-over-o...

friendly_chap 13y ago
People are waking up all over the world. I wish the best for your nation. Never give up.
- wavefunction 13y ago
  Hopefully it will happen here in the USA as well.
  - friendly_chap 13y ago
    I have high hopes for you Americans. "land of the free and the home of the brave"
  - foobarian 13y ago
    I look forward to Clinton vs. Rice in 2016.
- crassus 13y ago
  Ask the Arabs how that "waking up" is going for them. Instability is never a good in itself, especially if you don't have a clear alternative to slide in place. Young people have a hard time learning this lesson from history. They just like to see change, but often live to regret it.

twoodfin 13y ago

Exciting times to live in, hopefully the people will be able to get rid of the corrupt ruling class. In democracies, the people typically do this by voting for someone else. Why isn't that an option in Hungary?

friendly_chap 13y ago
In "democracies" similar to the Hungarian one you can chose who robs you, there is no good option. They are all the same, maybe one party called A the other B but the same people are behind all parties, and they form a strong inner circle. They just give you an illusion of democracy, really.
- twoodfin 13y ago
  And yet 64% of Hungary's voters still voted in the supposedly meaningless 2010 elections. Are they all suffering under this illusion? That seems like your first problem to fix.
  - friendly_chap 13y ago
    (Not addressing the fact we have incredible amounts of cheating at elections) People can get really dumb when 98% of their time is spent trying to survive on 200-300 USD a month. Add these facts to that 200-300 USD: - Food is generally more expensive than in the UK - A litre of gasoline costs 2 USD - Electricity and gas prices are more expensive then in the UK - The VAT is 27% etc...
mhurron 13y ago
>In democracies, the people typically do this by voting for someone else No, the people think they do this, in reality the new boss is pretty much the same as the old boss.
drinchev 13y ago
In eastern-european democracies ( like mine in Bulgaria ) your voting options are limited to parties that has stable corruption background, which pay media and poor citizen to vote for them. In this sense there is no way honest people to get involve in the government affairs, because they lack resources ( money, connections, etc. ) that are needed for wining ( even partly ) elections.

crusso 13y ago

corrupt ruling class That's redundant.

friendly_chap 13y ago
They are at the moment, in an ideal world they should not be.
- crusso 13y ago
  In an ideal world, there would be no ruling class.
  - friendly_chap 13y ago
    That is a fair point and this question is deep enough to be out of scope for HN comments. However, I think there may be a legitimate reason for an existence of a ruling class, or more like "leading class": if that class is accepting people based on their merits, like human decency or intellectual capability.
    - crusso 13y ago
      Leaders in various contexts are fine, but the whole notion of "class" needs to go away. Classes are just constructs of culture, politics, and law that are contrived to keep the people with power in place so they can take advantage of their special status.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

JonnieCache 13y ago

>in the UK where I currently live, politicians are going into prisons for faking a couple of thousands of pounds as expense and profiting from that. Thats more of a distraction than anything else. For the juicy stuff, look into the spending obligations on PFI contracts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_finance_initiative#Development_of_PFI_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_finance_initiative#Dev... https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AtE8tc3zkyCLdFVBNWFGbGdCeVd1YWhkcDRFRFlTaHc&hl=en https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AtE8tc3zkyCLdFVBNWF... http://www.theguardian.com/politics/datablog/2010/nov/19/pfi-public-finance#data http://www.theguardian.com/politics/datablog/2010/nov/19/pfi... The UK does its corruption over the table.

RivieraKid 13y ago

I was under the impression that Viktor Orban and his government - while being critisized from abroad - is actually quite popular? We have a similar problem with corruption and people being fed up here in the Czech Republic. Traditional parties suffered a big defeat in the last parlimentary elections and 3 new parties got into the parliament, so I'm carefully optimistic.