4 ms·

And just how do "the rest of us" know if we have a weakened immune system? If the objective is to do good and save lives, why not give everybody the same "safe

by yapcguy 13y ago

And just how do "the rest of us" know if we have a weakened immune system? If the objective is to do good and save lives, why not give everybody the same "safer" flu shot as given to pregnant women? Why not eliminate the risk that a few people wander into Walgreens, not knowing they have a weakened immune system, and then get seriously ill or worse, drop dead?

ceejayoz 13y ago
> And just how do "the rest of us" know if we have a weakened immune system? You generally know if you're undergoing chemo, have AIDS, are pregnant, are over 50, etc. The provider administering will jog your memory, too. > If the objective is to do good and save lives, why not give everybody the same "safer" flu shot as given to pregnant women? According to Wikipedia, there's evidence it's more effective in young children. As with most medical treatments, there are risks and benefits that must be considered. The fact that it doesn't require a needle also has significant benefits, as fear of needles can be a barrier to vaccination. By all means, continue the argument from ignorance and personal incredulity, though.
- yapcguy 13y ago
  I never said don't take vaccines. Yes, I do find it quite incredible that questioning the efficacy of vaccines is like a red flag to a bull for some people. Even though the Lancet has published research examining the flu vaccine's effectiveness, it appears any kind of discussion is strictly forbidden. I don't want to use the word "fascist" but this discussion has clearly shown that the people who are truly ignorant are those who fail to consider dissenting viewpoints.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    What's a red flag is not questioning the efficacy of vaccines, but rather doing so in an ignorant and incredulous manner without doing any research.
  - ceejayoz 13y ago
    > I don't want to use the word "fascist" but this discussion has clearly shown that the people who are truly ignorant are those who fail to consider dissenting viewpoints. I have little patience for the "explain this... oh... well, explain THIS! oh... well..." game vaccine doubters play.
    - mikeash 13y ago
      It's pretty incredible. "If this gravity stuff worked like you said, then cars would all be stuck to the ground." "Well actually, they are." "Sure, usually, but I saw a picture of a car that landed on top of another car. Clearly there are some flaws in this gravity thing." "It's true that there are ways to get cars off the ground, but they don't stay off the ground for long, and their behavior still fits entirely within the theory of gravity. This is pretty basic stuff and you should really research it." And then they call you a "fascist" for "not tolerating dissenting views".
mikeash 13y ago
A weakened immune system is not a condition you can really have without realizing it. But if you don't want to take the risk, by all means, go for the injection. In fact, my provider has never offered the nasal spray. It's only there because people find it to be more convenient or don't like needles.
- fecak 13y ago
  Actually, how much do we know about whether a newborn has a compromised immune system or not? As an adult, we may know our medical history and immunity, either through testing or anecdotal evidence. However, we are talking here about newborns and infants between birth and six, who don't have 20 years of medical history that would indicate strength/weakness of an immune system.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    Are there any vaccines given to newborns that are contraindicated for immune-compromised people? That strikes me as rather unlikely.
    - fecak 13y ago
      Google is your friend.
      - mikeash 13y ago
        So you get to pose random questions without research, but I don't? How's that work?
        fecak 13y ago
        First, I'm not a doctor, and people should consult doctors for medical advice. Do I get to pose random questions without research? I can only assume you were referring to my question "how much do we know about whether a newborn has a compromised immune system or not?" That seems like a pretty legitimate question, does it not? Do I need a medical degree to pose a question regarding how much medical history we have about your average newborn baby? Am I crossing some line into medical 'research' by asking that question? When babies are born, do they have clear documented medical histories that I'm unaware of? You also asked if there were "any vaccines given to newborns that are contraindicated for immune-compromised people". First we need to define newborns. Wikipedia says hours days or a few weeks old. I couldn't find how the CDC defines newborns. In the first couple days, the only scheduled vaccine per the CDC is usually Hep B. Whether others are given in the first couple days probably depends on doctors, the baby's health, the parents, the country we're in, etc. From the CDC: "Hepatitis B vaccination is contraindicated for persons with a history of hypersensitivity to yeast or to any vaccine component (92,189--191). Despite a theoretic risk for allergic reaction to vaccination in persons with allergy to Saccharomyces cerevisiae (baker's yeast), no evidence exists that documents adverse reactions after vaccination of persons with a history of yeast allergy." So assuming you consider an allergy to be compromising to the immune system (which, by definition, an allergy is), it appears your answer is "yes, there is a vaccine given (or at least recommended) to newborns that is contraindicated for certain immune-compromised people". Hopefully those contraindicated infants are not given that vaccine, but as I posed earlier, how much do we know about an individual infant's immune system within hours of birth? This probably depends on a lot of things as well - doctors, hospital (or home birth), availability of testing and results, etc. The RV vaccine is usually given in the first couple months, where the 'newborn' label could still apply depending on how you use the word. RV is contraindicated for SCID. Below is a full list of contraindications for several vaccines, listed on the CDC website. http://www.cdc.gov/VACCINES/recs/vac-admin/contraindications-vacc.htm http://www.cdc.gov/VACCINES/recs/vac-admin/contraindications...

by yapcguy 13y ago

ceejayoz 13y ago

> And just how do "the rest of us" know if we have a weakened immune system? You generally know if you're undergoing chemo, have AIDS, are pregnant, are over 50, etc. The provider administering will jog your memory, too. > If the objective is to do good and save lives, why not give everybody the same "safer" flu shot as given to pregnant women? According to Wikipedia, there's evidence it's more effective in young children. As with most medical treatments, there are risks and benefits that must be considered. The fact that it doesn't require a needle also has significant benefits, as fear of needles can be a barrier to vaccination. By all means, continue the argument from ignorance and personal incredulity, though.

yapcguy 13y ago
I never said don't take vaccines. Yes, I do find it quite incredible that questioning the efficacy of vaccines is like a red flag to a bull for some people. Even though the Lancet has published research examining the flu vaccine's effectiveness, it appears any kind of discussion is strictly forbidden. I don't want to use the word "fascist" but this discussion has clearly shown that the people who are truly ignorant are those who fail to consider dissenting viewpoints.
- mikeash 13y ago
  What's a red flag is not questioning the efficacy of vaccines, but rather doing so in an ignorant and incredulous manner without doing any research.
- ceejayoz 13y ago
  > I don't want to use the word "fascist" but this discussion has clearly shown that the people who are truly ignorant are those who fail to consider dissenting viewpoints. I have little patience for the "explain this... oh... well, explain THIS! oh... well..." game vaccine doubters play.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    It's pretty incredible. "If this gravity stuff worked like you said, then cars would all be stuck to the ground." "Well actually, they are." "Sure, usually, but I saw a picture of a car that landed on top of another car. Clearly there are some flaws in this gravity thing." "It's true that there are ways to get cars off the ground, but they don't stay off the ground for long, and their behavior still fits entirely within the theory of gravity. This is pretty basic stuff and you should really research it." And then they call you a "fascist" for "not tolerating dissenting views".

mikeash 13y ago

A weakened immune system is not a condition you can really have without realizing it. But if you don't want to take the risk, by all means, go for the injection. In fact, my provider has never offered the nasal spray. It's only there because people find it to be more convenient or don't like needles.

fecak 13y ago
Actually, how much do we know about whether a newborn has a compromised immune system or not? As an adult, we may know our medical history and immunity, either through testing or anecdotal evidence. However, we are talking here about newborns and infants between birth and six, who don't have 20 years of medical history that would indicate strength/weakness of an immune system.
- mikeash 13y ago
  Are there any vaccines given to newborns that are contraindicated for immune-compromised people? That strikes me as rather unlikely.
  - fecak 13y ago
    Google is your friend.
    - mikeash 13y ago
      So you get to pose random questions without research, but I don't? How's that work?
      - fecak 13y ago
        First, I'm not a doctor, and people should consult doctors for medical advice. Do I get to pose random questions without research? I can only assume you were referring to my question "how much do we know about whether a newborn has a compromised immune system or not?" That seems like a pretty legitimate question, does it not? Do I need a medical degree to pose a question regarding how much medical history we have about your average newborn baby? Am I crossing some line into medical 'research' by asking that question? When babies are born, do they have clear documented medical histories that I'm unaware of? You also asked if there were "any vaccines given to newborns that are contraindicated for immune-compromised people". First we need to define newborns. Wikipedia says hours days or a few weeks old. I couldn't find how the CDC defines newborns. In the first couple days, the only scheduled vaccine per the CDC is usually Hep B. Whether others are given in the first couple days probably depends on doctors, the baby's health, the parents, the country we're in, etc. From the CDC: "Hepatitis B vaccination is contraindicated for persons with a history of hypersensitivity to yeast or to any vaccine component (92,189--191). Despite a theoretic risk for allergic reaction to vaccination in persons with allergy to Saccharomyces cerevisiae (baker's yeast), no evidence exists that documents adverse reactions after vaccination of persons with a history of yeast allergy." So assuming you consider an allergy to be compromising to the immune system (which, by definition, an allergy is), it appears your answer is "yes, there is a vaccine given (or at least recommended) to newborns that is contraindicated for certain immune-compromised people". Hopefully those contraindicated infants are not given that vaccine, but as I posed earlier, how much do we know about an individual infant's immune system within hours of birth? This probably depends on a lot of things as well - doctors, hospital (or home birth), availability of testing and results, etc. The RV vaccine is usually given in the first couple months, where the 'newborn' label could still apply depending on how you use the word. RV is contraindicated for SCID. Below is a full list of contraindications for several vaccines, listed on the CDC website. http://www.cdc.gov/VACCINES/recs/vac-admin/contraindications-vacc.htm http://www.cdc.gov/VACCINES/recs/vac-admin/contraindications...