4 ms·

> but it boils down to my belief that ongoing donations (a la Wikipedia's fundraisers) are unsustainable for large websites But... they work. They're not unsus

by selmnoo 13y ago

> but it boils down to my belief that ongoing donations (a la Wikipedia's fundraisers) are unsustainable for large websites But... they work. They're not unsustainable. If they were unsustainable, the very example you cite wouldn't exist. Hell, even really small websites make a killing purely by soliciting donations. Maria Popova of brainpickings does it and makes an unbelievable amount from it (though, she does it by misleading her users and doing ethically dubious things here and there). There's a balance to be reached here, but I don't think it's particularly difficult to pull off. > I have an intense distaste in the idea of fragmenting the community into "those who pay," and "those who don't" (a la Reddit Gold) That depends on the implementation. Reddit did an awesome job of rolling out Reddit Gold, it most definitely did not fragment the community. > Which leads us to what probably the main reason 4chan is a shitty business: because I choose for it to be one. If I'd decided to rape 4chan for all it was worth, as many would have I don't know moot. Who's to say 4chan would've gotten as big if you were more involved in getting money out of it? Seems to me, that considering the userbase of 4chan, another place like 4chan but without the ads would've been the go to place for them if 4chan wasn't very much like 4chan as it's been. User-experience matters in getting the users -- that's why Reddit won, that's why Imgur won, etc. etc.

moot 13y ago
> But... they work. They're not unsustainable. If they were, the very example you cite wouldn't exist. I disagree. Wikipedia is one of the best examples of sustenance-by-ongoing-donations, but it's an extreme edge case. They rely on their non-profit status and support from companies in the form of free hardware/bandwidth/etc, in addition to donations from end users. There are few examples of large websites successfully sustaining themselves long-term via donations, whereas the web is littered with plenty of dead websites that attempted the same (or transitioned away from relying on donations). Perhaps I should have specified donations as your "primary/sole funding model" as unsustainable. > That depends on the implementation. Reddit did an awesome job of rolling out Reddit Gold, it most definitely did not fragment the community. I would agree Reddit has done a good job with Gold, but wanted to emphasize the contrast between the two. Gold offers tons of great features, whereas 4chan's Pass only offers one, because its more in line with the ethos of the site (that everyone shares an equal voice, etc). > I don't know moot. Who's to say 4chan would've gotten as big if you were more involved in getting money out of it? Seems to me, that considering the userbase of 4chan, another place like 4chan but without the ads would've been the go to place for them. User-experience matters in getting the users -- that's why Reddit won, that's why Imgur won, etc. etc. I can't tell if you misinterpreted my response, or if I'm misinterpreting yours, but I didn't intend to take credit for 4chan's success, but think it's important to point out (in the context of OP's comment) that I've deliberately forgone the opportunity to monetize 4chan to its full potential throughout its existence. At almost every fork of "making a quick buck" and "staying the course," I've chosen the latter. It's only when we've been in truly dire straits that I've chosen the former.
- uchi 13y ago
  please continue to stay the course, moot. For better or worse, I love the site and its community. 4chan has been arguably more influential and relevant to the internet as a whole than many other similarly sized communities. It's managed to weather the influx of new users very well, which is something that has greatly degraded the quality other sites like reddit and tumblr.
- marvin 13y ago
  4chan is an incredibly influential online community, to a greater extent than most people realize. And it's the perfect case study of the advantages and disadvantages of online anonymity, in which the former wins by a large margin. This wouldn't be the case if you tried to whore out your users to advertizers. Kudos for doing a great job :)

by selmnoo 13y ago

moot 13y ago

> But... they work. They're not unsustainable. If they were, the very example you cite wouldn't exist. I disagree. Wikipedia is one of the best examples of sustenance-by-ongoing-donations, but it's an extreme edge case. They rely on their non-profit status and support from companies in the form of free hardware/bandwidth/etc, in addition to donations from end users. There are few examples of large websites successfully sustaining themselves long-term via donations, whereas the web is littered with plenty of dead websites that attempted the same (or transitioned away from relying on donations). Perhaps I should have specified donations as your "primary/sole funding model" as unsustainable. > That depends on the implementation. Reddit did an awesome job of rolling out Reddit Gold, it most definitely did not fragment the community. I would agree Reddit has done a good job with Gold, but wanted to emphasize the contrast between the two. Gold offers tons of great features, whereas 4chan's Pass only offers one, because its more in line with the ethos of the site (that everyone shares an equal voice, etc). > I don't know moot. Who's to say 4chan would've gotten as big if you were more involved in getting money out of it? Seems to me, that considering the userbase of 4chan, another place like 4chan but without the ads would've been the go to place for them. User-experience matters in getting the users -- that's why Reddit won, that's why Imgur won, etc. etc. I can't tell if you misinterpreted my response, or if I'm misinterpreting yours, but I didn't intend to take credit for 4chan's success, but think it's important to point out (in the context of OP's comment) that I've deliberately forgone the opportunity to monetize 4chan to its full potential throughout its existence. At almost every fork of "making a quick buck" and "staying the course," I've chosen the latter. It's only when we've been in truly dire straits that I've chosen the former.

uchi 13y ago
please continue to stay the course, moot. For better or worse, I love the site and its community. 4chan has been arguably more influential and relevant to the internet as a whole than many other similarly sized communities. It's managed to weather the influx of new users very well, which is something that has greatly degraded the quality other sites like reddit and tumblr.
marvin 13y ago
4chan is an incredibly influential online community, to a greater extent than most people realize. And it's the perfect case study of the advantages and disadvantages of online anonymity, in which the former wins by a large margin. This wouldn't be the case if you tried to whore out your users to advertizers. Kudos for doing a great job :)