4 ms·

Even these comments here are full of obstacles. Its like techies are so into btc they cant comprehend an article stating a real problem witb bitcoin. Its suppos

by antocv 13y ago

Even these comments here are full of obstacles. Its like techies are so into btc they cant comprehend an article stating a real problem witb bitcoin. Its supposed to be easy but it isnt, all these btc exchanges/markers/sites are worse than normal banking/trade sites. No I havent handed my photo to my bank and I wont do so for all the shady btc sites mentioned here. I dont hand my ID or "get verified" to amazon when buying stuff or other currencies either. Bitcoin is the worlds biggest scam. EDIT: Aside from the verification many of the exchanges actually dont deliver BTC to your own wallet but provide the kind "service" of keeping "your" wallet at their servers.

user24 13y ago
I was with you until the final sentence, which makes you sound emotionally involved rather than putting forward a logical argument. That aside, let me retort; > Its supposed to be easy but it isnt I agree, and I'll be hugely surprised if some enterprising individual doesn't solve the friction soon. > No I havent handed my photo to my bank and I wont do so for all the shady btc sites mentioned here. I dont hand my ID or "get verified" to amazon when buying stuff or other currencies either. I agree. I used bitbargain which was essentially as easy - and documentation free - as using my internet banking to transfer some funds to some bloke's bank account, who then released coin to me. It made me nervous doing it (what other system asks you to log in to your internet banking and xfer funds to some guy's account, simply trusting that they will deliver?) but it's about as easy as it gets currently. It's a new frontier, it's bound to be rough around the edges. And make no mistake, buying BTC is the edge. Once you've passed that hurdle, the simplicity is beautiful.
- jethro_tell 13y ago
  So is the easy way to do it an escrow service that can protect you from getting jacked using the same method?
  - user24 13y ago
    I'm not sure escrow services exist (yet). I don't know how exchanges work, having only bought on bitbargain, and never sold.
- mpg33 13y ago
  > I agree, and I'll be hugely surprised if some enterprising individual doesn't solve the friction soon. This is one of the upsides to Bitcoin IMO..much more innovation is possible with something like Bitcoin than the current financial system.
- jnbiche 13y ago
  >I agree, and I'll be hugely surprised if some enterprising individual doesn't solve the friction soon. Well, unfortunately, it's not a lack of innovation. It's government regulations. Hundreds of people are capable of setting up and marketing quick and easy ways to buy/sell Bitcoins, but they can't do it without risking jail time for breaking money transmission laws. Entrepreneurs are eager to take risks, but not the kind of risk that can land you in prison.
wcummings 13y ago
You're right, it should be easier, there's some startups trying to fix this (coinbase, most notably), but there's still a long way to go. >I dont hand my ID or "get verified" to amazon when buying stuff or other currencies either. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer This is for legal compliance w/ anti-money laundering laws that many financial institutions, currency transmitters etc have to follow
- summerdown2 13y ago
  Pardon my ignorance, but I thought bitcoin was supposed to be an anonymous cryptocurrency. I've read recently that there was a large bitcoin transfer (which had to happen in public due to the nature of the currency), and now all the sites are requiring highly sensitive IDs to function (eg passport scans). I'm honestly confused. This all seems more restrictive and less anonymous and groundbreaking than cash would be if it were introduced today.
  - geuis 13y ago
    Don't confuse exchanges with bitcoin. If you were to buy a loaf of bread from me with btc, I give it to you after you transfer a small amount to me. Converting one currency to another is entirely different. Exchanges are only nodes where currencies meet. Leave btc aside for a moment. Lots and lots of fraud goes on in these nodes among regular money. Say you run a drug cartel and you need to transfer money to your Swiss accounts. One way to launder it would be to trade it through a series of other currencies via currency exchanges. Muddies the trail and "cleans" the money. So what we have right now are exchanges being setup for bitcoin. Mostly they've been done by none-banking people. A few years have gone by, and in efforts to be legitimate the professional ones are conforming to existing banking laws to facilitate the ease of converting between currencies and bitcoin. The true success of btc will be seen when it is used entirely to facilitate economic transactions, rather than as a financial speculative instrument.
jnbiche 13y ago
What scams have you ever heard of that made it hard to get your money into them? The reason it's a pain to get into Bitcoin is because of all the regulations that the "shady" exchanges are complying with (and again, how many "shady" operations do you know that comply with government regulations?). By the way, I do agree that it can be inconvenient to get everything set up initially in an exchange like Coinbase or Bitstamp, but no more challenging than establishing a checking account at a local bank. Both are equally inconvenient to set up now due to onerous government regulation.
- XorNot 13y ago
  Most scams are hard to get money into because the finance system is specifically organized to make it hard to be scammed or run a scam. You know, the thing all those regulations are about. Which is why every scam starts off having to convince you to do something you don't quite understand, with a financial process that will always be a little odd.
- Jare 13y ago
  I think you're being disingenuous here. > What scams have you ever heard of that made it hard to get your money into them? The first thing a scammer will say is that he doesn't want your money. Depending on the scam and circumstances, he will even refuse it. > how many "shady" operations do you know that comply with government regulations? All such operations must avoid showing up in any government's radar. For that they have to hide some parts of their activity, and look pristine, lawful and compliant in the rest.
  - jnbiche 13y ago
    >I think you're being disingenuous here. Well, I think you're being disingenuous. Please cite a scam that worked by making it hard to get money into the system. Besides, mind blown! Bitcoin is a phenomenon that has been featured on the front pages of the Wall Street Journal and New York Times, regularly covered on NPR and CNBC, all with coverage that was generally critical but fair, and no one accusing it of being a "scam". And yet you're still hanging on to this baseless, slanderous accusation? I mean, accuse r/Bitcoin of being mindless cheerleaders of Bitcoin, fair criticism. Accuse the economy of being traditionally filled with libertarians, programmers, and crooks. Fair criticism. But scam? Come on. It's you who is being disingenuous here.

by antocv 13y ago

user24 13y ago

I was with you until the final sentence, which makes you sound emotionally involved rather than putting forward a logical argument. That aside, let me retort; > Its supposed to be easy but it isnt I agree, and I'll be hugely surprised if some enterprising individual doesn't solve the friction soon. > No I havent handed my photo to my bank and I wont do so for all the shady btc sites mentioned here. I dont hand my ID or "get verified" to amazon when buying stuff or other currencies either. I agree. I used bitbargain which was essentially as easy - and documentation free - as using my internet banking to transfer some funds to some bloke's bank account, who then released coin to me. It made me nervous doing it (what other system asks you to log in to your internet banking and xfer funds to some guy's account, simply trusting that they will deliver?) but it's about as easy as it gets currently. It's a new frontier, it's bound to be rough around the edges. And make no mistake, buying BTC is the edge. Once you've passed that hurdle, the simplicity is beautiful.

jethro_tell 13y ago
So is the easy way to do it an escrow service that can protect you from getting jacked using the same method?
- user24 13y ago
  I'm not sure escrow services exist (yet). I don't know how exchanges work, having only bought on bitbargain, and never sold.
mpg33 13y ago
> I agree, and I'll be hugely surprised if some enterprising individual doesn't solve the friction soon. This is one of the upsides to Bitcoin IMO..much more innovation is possible with something like Bitcoin than the current financial system.
jnbiche 13y ago
>I agree, and I'll be hugely surprised if some enterprising individual doesn't solve the friction soon. Well, unfortunately, it's not a lack of innovation. It's government regulations. Hundreds of people are capable of setting up and marketing quick and easy ways to buy/sell Bitcoins, but they can't do it without risking jail time for breaking money transmission laws. Entrepreneurs are eager to take risks, but not the kind of risk that can land you in prison.

wcummings 13y ago

You're right, it should be easier, there's some startups trying to fix this (coinbase, most notably), but there's still a long way to go. >I dont hand my ID or "get verified" to amazon when buying stuff or other currencies either. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer This is for legal compliance w/ anti-money laundering laws that many financial institutions, currency transmitters etc have to follow

summerdown2 13y ago
Pardon my ignorance, but I thought bitcoin was supposed to be an anonymous cryptocurrency. I've read recently that there was a large bitcoin transfer (which had to happen in public due to the nature of the currency), and now all the sites are requiring highly sensitive IDs to function (eg passport scans). I'm honestly confused. This all seems more restrictive and less anonymous and groundbreaking than cash would be if it were introduced today.
- geuis 13y ago
  Don't confuse exchanges with bitcoin. If you were to buy a loaf of bread from me with btc, I give it to you after you transfer a small amount to me. Converting one currency to another is entirely different. Exchanges are only nodes where currencies meet. Leave btc aside for a moment. Lots and lots of fraud goes on in these nodes among regular money. Say you run a drug cartel and you need to transfer money to your Swiss accounts. One way to launder it would be to trade it through a series of other currencies via currency exchanges. Muddies the trail and "cleans" the money. So what we have right now are exchanges being setup for bitcoin. Mostly they've been done by none-banking people. A few years have gone by, and in efforts to be legitimate the professional ones are conforming to existing banking laws to facilitate the ease of converting between currencies and bitcoin. The true success of btc will be seen when it is used entirely to facilitate economic transactions, rather than as a financial speculative instrument.

jnbiche 13y ago

What scams have you ever heard of that made it hard to get your money into them? The reason it's a pain to get into Bitcoin is because of all the regulations that the "shady" exchanges are complying with (and again, how many "shady" operations do you know that comply with government regulations?). By the way, I do agree that it can be inconvenient to get everything set up initially in an exchange like Coinbase or Bitstamp, but no more challenging than establishing a checking account at a local bank. Both are equally inconvenient to set up now due to onerous government regulation.

XorNot 13y ago
Most scams are hard to get money into because the finance system is specifically organized to make it hard to be scammed or run a scam. You know, the thing all those regulations are about. Which is why every scam starts off having to convince you to do something you don't quite understand, with a financial process that will always be a little odd.
Jare 13y ago
I think you're being disingenuous here. > What scams have you ever heard of that made it hard to get your money into them? The first thing a scammer will say is that he doesn't want your money. Depending on the scam and circumstances, he will even refuse it. > how many "shady" operations do you know that comply with government regulations? All such operations must avoid showing up in any government's radar. For that they have to hide some parts of their activity, and look pristine, lawful and compliant in the rest.
- jnbiche 13y ago
  >I think you're being disingenuous here. Well, I think you're being disingenuous. Please cite a scam that worked by making it hard to get money into the system. Besides, mind blown! Bitcoin is a phenomenon that has been featured on the front pages of the Wall Street Journal and New York Times, regularly covered on NPR and CNBC, all with coverage that was generally critical but fair, and no one accusing it of being a "scam". And yet you're still hanging on to this baseless, slanderous accusation? I mean, accuse r/Bitcoin of being mindless cheerleaders of Bitcoin, fair criticism. Accuse the economy of being traditionally filled with libertarians, programmers, and crooks. Fair criticism. But scam? Come on. It's you who is being disingenuous here.