4 ms·

If the computational theory of mind is correct -- the theory that our minds can be emulated by a computation at some substitution level -- then I can even give

If the computational theory of mind is correct -- the theory that our minds can be emulated by a computation at some substitution level -- then I can even give you the code for the Matrix. It's called the Universal Dovetailer, and it's a simple program that runs all possible programs. On each step it runs the next instruction of every program running so far and introduces the first step of a new program. Given infinite time, it performs every conceivable computation. Due to the Church-Turin thesis, we know that the infinite set of all programs can be enumerated and we also know that it doesn't matter in which programming language we use, provided it is Turing-complete. Since the Universal Dovetailer is a conceivable program, this computation will contain itself in a recursive fashion (simulations within simulations).

thenerdfiles 13y ago
Conceivablility is no substitute for a sound proof.
- TelmoMenezes 13y ago
  Of course. However, sometimes no prove is possible. This limitation of formal logic was proved by Gödel. Here, I believe mind emulation might be possible, but I believe I cannot know for sure unless my own mind is emulated -- in which case I will have private knowledge but no way to prove it to you. How can I prove that I'm conscious? You can see how this problem extends to simulated realities (or computational realities).
  - thenerdfiles 13y ago
    GE Moore gave a perfectly valid proof. [Here is a hand, here is another hand; I have two hands.]
varjag 13y ago
If it takes infinite time to arrive at a proof, it's not quite a proof.
- TelmoMenezes 13y ago
  The Church-Turing thesis can be proved in finite time, and it was. The Universal Dovetailer can be written in finite time, and it was. What takes infinite time is computing everything -- which makes sense because everything is infinite.
  - varjag 13y ago
    Church-Turing thesis is a conjecture, it's in the name. It has not been formally proven. The dovetailer itself does not constitute a proof of anything, not any more than hypothetical billion monekys with typerwriters would.

thenerdfiles 13y ago

Conceivablility is no substitute for a sound proof.

TelmoMenezes 13y ago
Of course. However, sometimes no prove is possible. This limitation of formal logic was proved by Gödel. Here, I believe mind emulation might be possible, but I believe I cannot know for sure unless my own mind is emulated -- in which case I will have private knowledge but no way to prove it to you. How can I prove that I'm conscious? You can see how this problem extends to simulated realities (or computational realities).
- thenerdfiles 13y ago
  GE Moore gave a perfectly valid proof. [Here is a hand, here is another hand; I have two hands.]

varjag 13y ago

If it takes infinite time to arrive at a proof, it's not quite a proof.

TelmoMenezes 13y ago
The Church-Turing thesis can be proved in finite time, and it was. The Universal Dovetailer can be written in finite time, and it was. What takes infinite time is computing everything -- which makes sense because everything is infinite.
- varjag 13y ago
  Church-Turing thesis is a conjecture, it's in the name. It has not been formally proven. The dovetailer itself does not constitute a proof of anything, not any more than hypothetical billion monekys with typerwriters would.