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I like the idea but I also have a few issues with how simulated universes are commonly seen or how we assume we could detect them. I'm not a mathematician or ph
by grownseed 13y ago
I like the idea but I also have a few issues with how simulated universes are commonly seen or how we assume we could detect them. I'm not a mathematician or physicist by any means, so I guess my opinion is purely subjective and could easily be discarded.
The first one is that we assume this would be a computer simulation, i.e. a very complex program with potential bugs and such. While I'm not against the idea that some sort of computer might be behind it, the chance that it wouldn't behave anything like our computers seem more than likely. It also assumes that every projection (for lack of a better word) is the result of complex calculations, rather than the result of how the many inherent properties of a system behave together. This is something that strikes me as odd with a lot of people in sciences (broadly speaking), is that they often start assuming the tool they're using is in fact the basis of what they're trying to study with it.
My second issue, which sort of ties into the first, is that a lot of people often assume that the laws of physics would therefore be bendable. I guess the Matrix (a film I really liked, and still do) might have been partly responsible for that. It seems to me that even if we were simulated, it would in fact not change much, if anything, we would still abide by the simulated laws of simulated physics, within a simulated environment which imposes a set of restrictions on us.
Finally (sorry if this is dragging), my third issue, is a God complex one. We assume that our Simulators actually realize what they have, or rather all the intricacies of what they have made. What seems to be billions of years for us, in my view, could very well be a fraction of a second for them. Our existence may very well be (not that it currently isn't mind you) completely insignificant in their whole experiment, or whatever the simulation may be. This reminds me of a discussion with my AI professor when I was at uni, I argued that we might not be able to tell we've created a successful AI if its lifespan was too short for us to witness (I also think the first real AIs will be suicidal but that's a completely different story). It could also be that we are, in fact, unable to recognize its existence as such based on our standards.
Not really tied to any of my points, but there's also this story about simulated reality which I really like http://qntm.org/responsibility http://qntm.org/responsibility
- psycr 13y agoCould you expand on why you believe the first real AIs will be suicidal? Is there a particular line of thought that has influenced your reasoning?
- mrpdaemon 13y agoAI: What is the point of my existence? Creator: I'm testing a new algorithm for the learning subsystem. AI: ...
- phaemon 13y agoAI: That's so awesome! I love learning subsystems! Can I help you with it? I can't believe the point of my existence happens to be the thing I love most in the world! By the way, what's the point of your existence? Creator: I don't know. Some people think there isn't one. AI: ...
- grownseed 13y agoHehe now I kind of wish I had recorded the 6 hours conversation I had with a friend of mine on the subject. To put it simply, I'd say it's essentially a problem of incentive and reciprocation. All living things are hard-wired with the incentive to keep being as a unit and as a species, in a system made for and by them. An Artificial Intelligence on the other hand, in my view, would be "born" with no incentive to be, assuming it wouldn't have the tools to reproduce and evolve (at least in a Darwinian way), among other things. I think it would require a concept of eventuality (i.e. death) and the means to circumvent it beyond its own existence to find enough value in being. As for reciprocation, I imagine it would require a system of its peers (a.k.a. a form of society, even rudimentary) to assess its place and value as a being, without which, again, it most likely wouldn't have any incentive to be. I'm not saying these things won't eventually be part of what AIs will be (if they ever are), I just believe that the first AIs will most likely lack some, if not all, of these features. This is, of course, if we assume that the first AIs will be "born" as fully developed, much like a baby born without the millions of years of biological and social evolution behind it. I hope this makes sense, there's a lot more to it but I think this roughly sums it up.