4 ms·

but it trivially can be - this is very measurable and lots of people do it. see for instance iOS, OS X, Android, Windows 8... actually I can just list the moder

by jheriko 13y ago

but it trivially can be - this is very measurable and lots of people do it. see for instance iOS, OS X, Android, Windows 8... actually I can just list the modern operating systems that don't provide such an environment out of the box: (end of list)

LionRoar 13y ago
I can totally understand your frustration that shines through. Basically I agree with you. 8 years ago I saw the start of an explosion of new languages/frameworks/etc. All solving 1 of more things of a bigger problem. To my mind it became too fragmented, too many layers where too many things can go wrong and if not, will have a performance penalty. So I went to a more abstract approach by working visually in models. After some tries I discovered the OutSystems development environment for web applications and am working with it since on a daily base. The advantage of working visually is that I don't know or see what the compiler creates. (of course I encounter some SQL, JS, CSS and HTML) However, sometimes I miss text based coding, so this year I looked around to see if the development situation had become better. In my opinion it has not. There seems to be less fragmentation but that's probably caused by the fact that only a select set survived. Besides that new initiatives have been started. Personally I like the idea of using C as a cross platform language; because it already IS. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the lower levels of the used languages use it already in some form (remember it always needs to go native). Besides that, I think that if C would be the standard then within a couple of weeks you will have language X to C compilers and then have ABC->X->C and then have a webvariant WEB->ABC->X->C while undoubtedly someone will create a Javascript to web to abc to x to c compiler. And than there we are again where we started :) So in my opinion the problem lays with the chains. Some abstraction is needed of course but not several layers on layers. I would like to see more direct to (e.g.) c compilers: JS->C, Web->C, ABC->C, X->C whereby it is not the goal to program in C but have it as an intermediate format. I believe that software development has not grown forward enough. There is plenty movement left and right but not going forward. So, I am back to my visual modelling environment and will check later on...
flohofwoe 13y ago
IMHO the "sandboxes" those OS'es provide are all terribly broken. You'll have to sign your code, you can't distribute your code outside of app shops (either completely impossible like on iOS, or scare-dialogs pop up like in OSX), there are gate keepers which dictate what software gets in the app shops and which don't, and which can remove your app from the shop at a whim. And did you look at the Windows8 Store Apps API? It's a f*cking joke. Innovation doesn't happen in those closed-down environments, only commerce (but commerce depends on innovation).

by jheriko 13y ago

LionRoar 13y ago

I can totally understand your frustration that shines through. Basically I agree with you. 8 years ago I saw the start of an explosion of new languages/frameworks/etc. All solving 1 of more things of a bigger problem. To my mind it became too fragmented, too many layers where too many things can go wrong and if not, will have a performance penalty. So I went to a more abstract approach by working visually in models. After some tries I discovered the OutSystems development environment for web applications and am working with it since on a daily base. The advantage of working visually is that I don't know or see what the compiler creates. (of course I encounter some SQL, JS, CSS and HTML) However, sometimes I miss text based coding, so this year I looked around to see if the development situation had become better. In my opinion it has not. There seems to be less fragmentation but that's probably caused by the fact that only a select set survived. Besides that new initiatives have been started. Personally I like the idea of using C as a cross platform language; because it already IS. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the lower levels of the used languages use it already in some form (remember it always needs to go native). Besides that, I think that if C would be the standard then within a couple of weeks you will have language X to C compilers and then have ABC->X->C and then have a webvariant WEB->ABC->X->C while undoubtedly someone will create a Javascript to web to abc to x to c compiler. And than there we are again where we started :) So in my opinion the problem lays with the chains. Some abstraction is needed of course but not several layers on layers. I would like to see more direct to (e.g.) c compilers: JS->C, Web->C, ABC->C, X->C whereby it is not the goal to program in C but have it as an intermediate format. I believe that software development has not grown forward enough. There is plenty movement left and right but not going forward. So, I am back to my visual modelling environment and will check later on...

flohofwoe 13y ago

IMHO the "sandboxes" those OS'es provide are all terribly broken. You'll have to sign your code, you can't distribute your code outside of app shops (either completely impossible like on iOS, or scare-dialogs pop up like in OSX), there are gate keepers which dictate what software gets in the app shops and which don't, and which can remove your app from the shop at a whim. And did you look at the Windows8 Store Apps API? It's a f*cking joke. Innovation doesn't happen in those closed-down environments, only commerce (but commerce depends on innovation).