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Dear Spike Lee
- donretag 13y agoSo basically Spike Lee doesn't do the right thing?
- temuze 13y agoHe probably doesn't know what happened. The designer dealt with the agency, not Spike. That's why it's addressed to him.
- gkoberger 13y agoLike him or not, seems he had absolutely nothing to do with any of this.
- bigiain 13y agoYes and no. As the open letter makes very clear - it was bad behaviour on the part of the agency, and Spike most likely didn't know it was going on (and the letter even suggests the agency was actively lying to him about it). But - Spike is ultimately the one in control of the money-tap the agency is drinking from. While he had "absolutely nothing to do with this", it was no doubt done on his behalf, and he absolutely has the power to fix it. If he says "No, that's not how we do things", then it'll get fixed. (Arguably there are many other people below Spike who could also make that call, but I have some sympathy for the original poster - it would be a great deal of work if it's possible at all, to find out who in the middle management chain of command has sufficient authority to solve this problem and how to contact them directly.)
- rurban 13y agoUnrealistic. He has the last word on the posters being choosen. He already chose these posters, but was told that the guy asked for money. It was his decision to rip him off. He is the producer also.
- bigiain 13y agoGiven that the only information we've got to go on is the open letter - I'll point out this bit and take it at face value: "They forwarded me an email you sent them asking for an explanation but of course they lied to you and said they didn’t know who was responsible." I think it's 100% plausible that the agency accepted Lee's decision on which poster design to use as "last word", while not fully disclosing (and perhaps even actively deceiving him about) the payment/negotiations/contracts/copyrights with the designer.
- ams6110 13y agoNot that I know for sure, but I'd guess he had no idea where the agency got the artwork, whether they did it in-house, contracted it, stole it, or some combination.
- natrius 13y agoThis seems to be going over people's heads, so I'll leave this here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_the_Right_Thing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_the_Right_Thing
- enneff 13y agoI voted it down because these kind of dumb one-liner jokes are a waste of space.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- glomph 13y agoHave you actually seen the film? Doesn't really fit this pun.
- milemi 13y agoThe guy just got Bamboozled.
- herge 13y agoThis is why you should always have your contracts reviewed by a lawyer. See Mike Monteiro's Fuck You, Pay Me: http://vimeo.com/22053820 http://vimeo.com/22053820
- dkrich 13y agoTrue, but if he can prove he created them, he has a copyright on the work just by creating it.
- knice 13y agoI was thinking the same thing. Always, always, always have a contract in place. I really feel for this guy, but the way this went down, he provided them with his best work on the hope they would then reasonably compensate him. A contract, negotiated up-front, might have prevented the agency from taking advantage of him.
- wpietri 13y agoA contract, negotiated up front, is something assholes like this will never do. This guy had no leverage. His options were walk away early, walk away late, or get screwed.
- kbenson 13y agoThat's one of my favorites, and immediately what came to mind when I started reading this story.
- aaron695 13y ago
- redler 13y agoAn unfortunate but common sequence of events, where this: We never signed any contracts or work-for-hire agreements ...leads to these: The agency told me that I could publish the work as my own for the "exposure" I never even got paid the peanuts they owed me The agency responded by threatening me with legal action and worse Whenever a client states or implies that "the exposure" will be payment enough, alarm bells should be ringing.
- cokernel_hacker 13y agoSo the agency played hardball but the guy didn't budge, then tried to rip him off? Their bad faith effort seems to deserve punitive damages, I hope he takes them to court.
- lintr0ller 13y agoYou should tweet your address to him so he knows how to find you.
- danso 13y agoWhew...I thought this was going to be an indictment of the Oldboy remake. Sure, the original was great, but I was interested in how an American director would handle the material. That said, this was probably not the kind of controversy Spike Lee needs attached to this project. side note: Roger Ebert's raving review of Oldboy was what got me to watch the original Oldboy and that spurred a whole new appreciation of independent foreign films for me: http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/oldboy-2005 http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/oldboy-2005 Would've loved to see what he thought about this one, though Ebert's successor only gave the remake 3 stars http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/oldboy-2013 http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/oldboy-2013 http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/oldboy-2013 http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/oldboy-2013
- batbomb 13y agoThe entire vengeance trio is amazing, but I actually like Sympathy for Lady Vengeance the most. Park Chan-Wook's I'm a Cyborg, But That's OK is good too. You should check out Battle Royale if you liked Oldboy.
- devindotcom 13y agoFunny, I preferred Sympathy for Mr Vengeance, much more grounded and less stylized. I don't really see any parallels between Battle Royale and Oldboy. You might check out The Chaser and Yellow Sea, though.
- danso 13y agoThat's funny, I thought Mr. Vengeance was the best...artistically...whereas Lady Vengeance was the "safest" of the trio. Mr. Vengeance is astounding in its depths...however, it's not a movie I'd ever put in just for fun. In fact, I can't remember re-watching it after the first couple of times I saw it.
- rurban 13y agoThe controversy already started when we heard that Spike Lee (!), the amateur who doesn't even know the simpliest technical film skills got the rights. A similar controversy arose when M. Night Shyamalan sat on the rights for "Life of Pi" for a few years, but was ultimately replaced by Ang Lee. The only one who could master such a job. With the Oldboy remake it was clear from the beginning that it would lead to a desaster, but apparently the studio owed Spike Lee a big favor.
- erikig 13y agoSpike, you have 5 days...
- fooshero85 13y agoThe real question is, who is this agency? Typical run of the mill untalented agencies that steal other peoples work (even when they pay for it).
- gkoberger 13y agoSeems weird he mentioned Spike Lee (who did nothing wrong, as far as I can tell) so many times, but didn't name the agency. Seems to hurt the wrong party's reputation. Additionally, he has no apparent way to contact him. EDIT: I really don't want to point fingers with 0 proof, but Spike Lee happens to be CEO of an ad agency named Spike DDB. https://twitter.com/SpikeDDB https://twitter.com/SpikeDDB
- shawnc 13y agoThis is what I was thinking as well. Did he also send this letter privately, but posted publicly to get support as well? That seems the only logical way to do it, if he hopes to get a response.
- xutopia 13y agoWhat! I think his post does no such thing. Spike Lee did nothing wrong and the post shows nothing but respect for him.
- kitcar 13y agoJust some more background - DDB is part of the Omnicom group, which is one of the world's largest advertising agency holding companies. SpikeDDB is a collaboration between spike lee and DDB (and therefore Omnicom by extension). All that being said, I don't personally know if the agency in question is SpikeDDB or not.
- mikeg8 13y agoSpike contracted the agency, (or so it seems from a forwarded email) and he has the most control over the agency. I think by not publicly mentioning the agency's name, this gentlemen is demonstrating his desire to resolve this situation amicably and with integrity.
- bryne 13y agoI think it's prudent given that while the agency apparently lowballed him, it's not clear whether the agency or Spike Lee's production company (40 Acres And A Mule Filmworks, appearing on the posters in question on his Facebook page) are the party actually responsible for the theft/misappropriation.
- jcromartie 13y agoWell, now he's going to get paid.
- johnjlocke 13y agoNo, he's not. Spike Lee's response on Twitter is that he never hired him, doesn't know who he is, and if he has a beef, it's not with him.
- bananacurve 13y agoWhere are the internet hippies saying everything should be free?
- crusso 13y agoMy question as well. I'd love to hear from the advocates of "It's digital, there is no cost to the content producer for others to make copies."
- icebraining 13y agoThe difference is the implicit agreement between the author and the agency, without which the former wouldn't have spent two months making those works.
- res0nat0r 13y agoThere is also an agreement between you and artists that if you want to watch a movie or listen to a music cd you also pay for it.
- icebraining 13y agoWhen did I agree to that?
- res0nat0r 13y agoYou didn't if you downloaded it without paying, which is why it is illegal. Also you are undermining your own argument here if you support the OP's original "agreement" but not copyright to music / movies, when he explicitly states in the post: "We never signed any contracts or work-for-hire agreements and I certainly never agreed to donating or selling any copyright of my work without a licensing fee." So he should expect to be paid for his work or it be protected, but musicians shouldn't?
- 13y ago
- lignuist 13y agoFight the power
- marincounty 13y agoMost movies don't make what they used to--that is before the Internet. I would sue in small claims court. I'm surprised The Cricket didn't sub the job out to Indian graphic designer--and get away with paying a few rupees.
- greenyoda 13y agoSmall Claims Courts are limited to claims of a certain amount, typically something like $500. There's no way he could get back anywhere close to the real value of his design by suing them there. Besides, what the movie makes doesn't matter. He'd be suing the ad agency that ripped off his design, not the producers of the movie.
- anigbrowl 13y agoIt's $10,000 in California and you don't need a lawyer. However, winning is no sure thing; we're only getting one side of the story.
- chris_wot 13y agoWho was the agency?
- kaonashi 13y agoThey didn't seem to use his comps… I'm assuming he had access to the same pool of photography that the finals used, but that doesn't mean they ripped him off. The work on top of the photos seems very different to me.
- jere 13y agoI assume you're talking about one the comparison between the official poster released and his comp.... which he never claimed was ripped off. Did you get to the part where they clearly posted his comps on facebook?
- neeee 13y agoRead the entire article. They posted his comps on their facebook page.
- kaonashi 13y agoRight that is true. I guess showing the official posters as a cheap sympathy ploy rubbed me the wrong way.
- namwen 13y agoSeems to be entirely different photography from the comps to the finals.
- kaonashi 13y agoThey are from the same shoot; unless the author is claiming credit for that.
- MrZongle2 13y agoIf Mr. Garcia wants to work long hours in a stressful environment but at least get paid something for it.... perhaps he should apply for a job at Penny Arcade. Sounds like a move up.
- mavdi 13y agoshitty remake anyway
- gallerytungsten 13y agoSadly, this story is all too typical of how advertising agencies work. Having worked with a number of agencies in the past, I found that nearly all of them were more than willing to steal work, not pay, break contracts, and engage in other unsavory hardball tactics. This situation certainly looks like a blatant ripoff to me. I hope Juan Luis Garcia gets a great attorney and hefty amount of money.
- nhebb 13y agoFor anyone curious about the agency, Garcia told the Hollywood Reporter that he didn't name them because "Spike knows exactly who I am referring to." http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/designer-claims-oldboy-poster-designs-660599 http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/designer-claims...
- mildtrepidation 13y agoThere's big money and fame in high-profile work, and that can be very attractive... but stories like this, and the frequency with which they occur, are important to pay attention to. You can do everything right, you can make everyone happy, you can meet every demand, and you still stand a very real chance of getting absolutely shafted. I've experienced enough of this with much less prolific projects that I happily keep pretty much everything small time now. Chasing billboards and marquees is almost always a game for lucky people and the already-rich.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- ary 13y agoAre there any reasonable escrow services out there for designers? It seems that a third party with a list of conditions for both sides could hang on to a predetermined amount of money and the digital assets until both parties agree to release. There are perhaps caveats that I've not considered, but this idea comes to me again and again when I hear this kind of story (again). Edit: Guess I also have to throw in here that I am continually amazed at the number of people who are afraid to do the dirty work of being in business (drawing up contacts, negotiating, calculating margin, saying NO, etc).
- paulftw 13y ago"list of conditions for both sides ... predetermined amount of money" - that is what contract is. If they had it - no need for escrow.
- markdown 13y agoYou're assuming that: 1. The contract will be honoured and 2. The cost of litigation is lower than the unpaid $.
- paulftw 13y agowell, yes. I am assuming a lawyer call is enough to make 95% of people shut up and pay. at least in western world. So existence of contract reduces your risk 10-20 fold
- callmeed 13y agoSeriously, what is it with "Agencies" lately? Who the F--k are these people? I have heard/experienced a dozen similar stories recently. I have a friend who left a huge agency to freelance–only to have another small agency work him to the bone and take advantage of him almost exactly like the story here. YES I ABSOLUTELY GET THAT THE ONUS IS ON THE FREELANCER/SUB TO GET THEIR CONTRACTS IN PLACE ... But, seriously, these people are ridiculous. A bunch of salespeople in suits tossing around buzzwords so they can land a job taking advantage of a big company's big budget. Everything is a pitch or a comp or a big lead. My advice to all freelance hackers and designers: if you meet someone who says they work at an agency, (a) tell them you're a janitor and (b) run away.
- zalew 13y ago> My advice to all freelance hackers and designers: if you meet someone who says they work at an agency, (a) tell them you're a janitor and (b) run away. c) Tell them you don't do spec work, because you're not a moron - fuck you pay me. Agency finds naive freelancer, offers a job for exposure & other bullshit, overwhelms with fixes/updates, pretends being dissatisfied/offended, refuses to pay. This kind of story is as old as freelancing itself, only the names of parties involved change. PSA for inexperienced freelancers: Nobody will unclog your crapper for a promise of future gigs, designers and programmers shouldn't put up with such scams either. Too many of us gained this wisdom the hard way.
- dsirijus 13y agoIf HN will excuse my rant... They're parasites and bottom dwellers empowered by the fact that online marketing lowered the entry bar into marketing. During my 5-year experience with them, I quit in one where I worked full-time, worked with several dozen of these 'agencies', my ex works for one, and I am due payment tommorow by one. I'm drawing a line here (not nudged by this letter, I've come to that decision few weeks back) - I'll never work with them again. Their job is to suck your soul out, give you peanut shells, and kiss asses to their clients. They're never satisfied with the results, they won't pay the market rate, they abuse their employees. At first agency, I worked 120h a week, for several months, on several ocassions. Ended up in ER twice, lost an organ (gallbladder) and seriously damaged another (chronic gastritis) in short period of time, had micronap hallucinations regulary. Yes, I should've known better. Youthful energy got the best of me. It got best out of all their other employees, almost all who have left "violently". I was 27 at that point. On a more lighter note - old school marketeers with vision, concept and drive now get even more respect from me. I didn't appreciate them enough when I started, thinking that they're not doing enough "numbers". Tough times for them and it's a shame. They'll be back on horse soon enough, I hope. There ought to be data-sucking ad-providing backlash at one point, right? Tell me it is so.
- AnotherDesigner 13y agoAgencies are giant corporations these days. http://vitamintalent.com/common/img/vitabites/vitamin-t-agency-bloodline-full-size.jpg http://vitamintalent.com/common/img/vitabites/vitamin-t-agen... They will screw you every chance they get.
- zaidf 13y agoIt's actually good that you didn't have a contract. If you did, you would probably be sworn to secrecy and not be able to share this story. Sure, with a contract you could take them to court, but you can do that anyway if someone stole your work. I did work through an agency for a San Francisco interior designer. The agency's Founder paid me with multiple bad checks. Meanwhile, two years later, my work continues to be used and I remain unpaid for a month of full time work. I ended up launching a site exposing the guy behind the agency who has a history of writing bad checks. I've received many emails from others he scammed or tried to scam so I find some peace in the fact that when people google his name, a site exposing the guy come up.
- rurban 13y agoI always consider Spike Lee as technically worst filmmaker working today, and wondered who on earth did he get to rights for the Oldboy remake. He cannot even get the simpliest things right, and I wonder how often the DP needs to help him adjusting the shooting plan, tell him that he crossed the line and adjusted angles, and how much the editor has to fix. And we have to see the results. But with the Oldboy remake you would need a master, not an amateur with a hyper ego. Anyway, I decided to skip that desaster last year already. And now we see that he is also in other departments one of the lowest.
- slvrspoon 13y agothis is market driven. sorry, it's just not worth that much to the "soul-sucking intermediaries". this guy shined through, but the agency is correct on one count, you need to pay dues until your reputation gives you demonstrable leverage. clearly, mr Garcia doesn't have that. if the agency misrepresented payment if he won the contract, that is a fair gripe, however.
- larrys 13y ago"But they said that the important thing wasn’t the money it was the exposure and potential for more work. After thinking about it long and hard I had to decline. " Because the exposure was more important than the money. Would have of course been nice if they stated this upfront but they didn't. That's water under the dam at this point. I have regularly done work for people at no charge. This has not only led to a great amount of paid work but I've thrown around the names that I've done work for quite liberally and use it the same way the company that sold a treadmill to the White House used to scream in their ads "only one chosen to be used by the President in the White House!!" (when in fact it is a competitive bid almost certainly). So I use those names to book more work. I've even used the names with success when cold emailing here and there. Right on the subject line. While it is not great that he was lied to, he did agree to put in the work with no guarantee of getting anything. Consequently the way I look at it even if he feels he was screwed he should have sucked it up and let Spike use it, even for free, and then bragged and gotten out of that what he could until the cows came home. Instead he reacted emotionally and ends up with nothing. Understanding of course that this is upsetting. Separately, in looking at his site he does really nice work. So perhaps he shouldn't have done the work on spec in the first place but then again he did say that "the idea of working for you and having my design represent your film blinded me." In other words if anyone of us had approached him to do work on spec he most likely would have declined very quickly or not treated the transaction the same way.
- Samizdata 13y agoThe problem is, as I see it, is with the agency grabbing the copyright, is that he has no way of proving it was his work, so that he arguably does not even have bragging rights.
- Shinden 13y agoAs Richard Pryor once said "don't be messing wit dem Jews if you ain't got no money". Welcome to the world of people who give you praise and acolades but give you nothing in return. They are consumate smoke blowing up your ass thieves. Contract in hand and no matter what you should own all intelectual property rights. The reason they chose you was because they thought you would roll over for a belly rub and instead all you got for your efforts was a kick in the head. Ever go see a movie and see all these companies that flash accross the screen before the movie starts? You have no idea what they do? well those are the companies subcontracted out to market, advertise, invest and promote the movie and those adds are important because if you are somehow in the privy of someone who promises 20% of your investment return if you fund a movie they will mention those companies and your will say "OH! so thats who you are!" RUN QUICK!
- nomedeplume 13y agoDid you really ned to bring Jews into this?
- mystix24 13y agoI don't get the last bit you mentioned. in the privy of someone who promises 20% of your investment return if you fund a movie they will mention those companies and your will say "OH! so thats who you are!" RUN QUICK! Why would anyone wants a 20% return? I want 100%+ return on an investment. Are you trying to say that 80% is to have my company name on that stupid screen?
- pbreit 13y agoI usually have very little sympathy designer complaints around spec work, pay and "borrowing" but this is totally messed up.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- mystix24 13y agoThis type of scam permeates throughout society. In web design, media production companies. SOMETIMES PEOPLE JUST WANT TO BELITTLE YOU AND MAKE YOU FEEL LIKE YOU DON'T KNOW YOUR PRACTICE. THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE TO BE SMART WHEN YOU ARE HIRED. You have to be smart and not be lead on by advertisers.
- schainks 13y agoFrom the comments so far, these lessons seem relevant: 1) Get a contract signed up front. If possible, make sure you're allowed to discuss your experience with the firm publicly along the way, so you're allowed to talk about it (good or bad). 2) watch "fuck you, pay me" (http://vimeo.com/22053820 http://vimeo.com/22053820) 3) Spike Lee hires a firm that brings him top talent and work, but that firm treats that talent like shit. We (all the netizens!) are giving Spike Lee the benefit of the doubt, as he appears to be unaware of this practice. 4) These agencies need to be called out more often for unfair business practices, no matter how reputable they are. They don't have to like their talent as people, but they must respect their talent and the skills of the community they serve. As long as you're not publicly mentioning this firm's name, I hope you are privately notifying ALL the designers you know to never work with this agency and mention the firm by name. Sorry you got shafted like this, but you're clearly making the most of it. Your artwork is great, by the way, keep it up - I suspect this bad egg won't poison your future livelihood ;) Edit: formatting
- theboss 13y agoSeems to me this guy is going about it all wrong. Why not keep your mouth shut and sue. If he never got paid and never signed anything then it's a clear case of copyright infringement since the images are being used in commerce. Lawyer up and get off the internet.
- cinitriqs 13y agoI feel sick to my stomach as well, all about the artist's heart here, as well as about the respect this one has for Spike Lee (which I admire a lot myself). As an advocate for righteousness, this does come across rather harsh and intimidating so I hope SL reconsiders the contract with the people responsible for this mishap... All the best though, all the best.
- Inetgate 13y agoThere is no content on URL. So, I attach web archive link http://web.archive.org/web/20131127041019/http://juanluisgarcia.com/dear-spike-lee/ http://web.archive.org/web/20131127041019/http://juanluisgar...