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Non-Creepy Networking: Party Etiquette

111 points by wallflower 13y ago

joelrunyon 13y ago
have a fun and honest excuse about why you absolutely must give them out. > I’m sorry, I just got 500 business cards made and I’ll feel like such an idiot if I don’t give at least one of them out at this party. > I’m dying to get new cards made but I will feel like such a tree-destroyer if I don’t get rid of these first—have one! None of those sound like either fun or honest "excuses"
- nkuttler 13y ago
  That's what's funny about them.
- RBerenguel 13y ago
  > As the great card overlord I salute you. Here, join the ranks of my army by taking one of these. For the glory of the business card empire!
- lmm 13y ago
  They may not be truthful, but I think they're honest in the sense of not deceiving the person you're speaking to.
snowpolar 13y ago
"Don’t be a “close talker”." "Everyone has different needs in terms of personal space, and one of the fastest ways to creep someone out is to get too close to them when having a conversation. If you google “personal space diagram” you’ll see all sorts of sociological visualizations of the degrees of person proximity okay-ness." Reminds me of a ex-friend who always said I'm only a normal friend and yet we always have conversations that I would say is in the very very inner of a personal-space diagram. PS: We r no longer friends due to a misunderstanding. I miss her.
- poolpool 13y ago
  o no bb wat happened?
  - sp332 13y ago
    That's incredibly condescending and uncalled for. I would say "this doesn't belong on hn" but in fact, you shouldn't make fun of anyone, ever.
    - simoncion 13y ago
      Much social bonding is accomplished by gently making fun of one another. If you strip that out, you lose a valuable social tool.
      - sp332 13y ago
        My comment may also have been a little rushed :) Making fun of someone using 'r' for "are" by harping on a relationship problem that obviously still hurts is kinda out of line though.
- JosephHatfield 13y ago
  My technique for personal space management when "networking" is to let the other person determine how close they want to be. I try not to move away or move in once that distance is set. People seem to react well to this.
afandian 13y ago
Business cards come out when you've had an interesting conversation with someone and you want to stay in contact for one reason or another. If you need to find an excuse to hand one over, you've wasted money and materials. The person on the receiving end hasn't demonstrated that they want one, and you have demonstrated to them that you don't value them.
- gedrap 13y ago
  Exactly! Once a guy walked up to me "Do you have a job?" "Yeah" "Well have the business card anyway" and walked away. I will remember him but probably not in a way he/the company would like to.
scrrr 13y ago
If you have something interesting to say, say it. If not, don't speak. I sometimes dream of a world where this is the norm. That's why networking is such an "awful word". Also: Produce something of value for the world and networking happens automatically anyway.
- girvo 13y ago
  Everyone has something interesting to say. I like meeting and talking to new people, it's fun. Is that a bad thing now? You're right on your second point, I agree entirely.
  - mhurron 13y ago
    > Everyone has something interesting to say. No they don't. Like that.
    - Jtsummers 13y ago
      I'm not sure I'd go to the extreme of saying everyone, but most people have something interesting to say. That doesn't mean that everything they say is going to be interesting.
- EliRivers 13y ago
  I sometimes dream of a world where this is the norm. It's a horrible dream. A great deal of human (vocal) social interaction consists of saying things that aren't actually interesting. Nods and "uh huhs" and other such noises, and conversations doing no more than confirming to each other what the weather is like at the moment and how nice/unpleasant that is, and so on. It exists for a reason, and that reason is not to impart interesting information.
  - scrrr 13y ago
    Smalltalk? I think it's more important in some cultures, muss less important / annoying in others.
  - 13y ago
ps4fanboy 13y ago
I really despise the word creepy, its like rapey and its used to slander men all the time.
- Jtsummers 13y ago
  That's not really relevant to this article though. It's not "Men: How to not creep out women when networking". It's "People: How to not creep out people when networking".
  - dsuth 13y ago
    I was really expecting the former when I clicked the link. Pity, that would have made a better, more directed post IMO
girvo 13y ago
Nice post. For leaving a conversation, I rarely bother with an excuse, I just say something similar to "Hey it's been really awesome meeting you, $person. Ill definitely $contact_in_future_plan!" Seems to work just fine :)
sfjailbird 13y ago
You are overthinking it. If it doesn't come naturally to you (like the author by her own admission), there is likely a good reason that you find it uncomfortable. Like maybe you actually don't have anything interesting to share. Or you don't really care about the people you are meeting. In either case, no point in faking it or pretending, find a social context that you actually enjoy. Lots of people are shy in general gatherings but completely light up in the company of others who share their (geeky) interests.
- thisone 13y ago
  I've found quite good reason to fake it. It actually has made me a happier person. I talk much less about myself and learn much more about other people. Whether I'm really truly, deeply interested is not the point. When it comes to working with people, I find it easier to get consensus and motivate people when I know what it is they want. By getting truly interested in other people, it's much easier for me to know what motivates them.
- personlurking 13y ago
  "Or you don't really care about the people you are meeting." I've been to very few of these events and at one I approached one of the people who gave a short talk earlier in the evening to merely ask him more about his business. Towards the end of my first spoken sentence to the guy, he turned to his female cohort and blurted, "wow, did you hear that, Kristy?" (as she sticks her hand in front of me, while he walks away). It all happened in the span of 5 seconds and I couldn't decide if it was just really smooth on his part (being a seasoned networker) or really douchey. I decided it was both. 'Kristy' was also pouring some drinks for some other people at the moment and thus couldn't talk after the initial handshake.
  - woebtz 13y ago
    Whoa, unless I'm completely reading this the wrong way, this sounds like a classic Jerry Seinfeld anecdote: a guy eating at a restaurant notices Jerry Seinfeld sitting at a table across the way with a woman and some children. Being a fan of the show, the guy feels compelled to say hello and meet one of his favorite TV stars. He's nearly done with his own meal and after Seinfeld's table's orders have been taken, he makes his approach: "Mr. Seinfeld! Hi, I'm ____. I'm a huge fan of your work...", the guy says with eyes gleaming. Seinfeld briefly glances at the man and then turns towards the woman he's seated next to and smiles. "Would it be a bother to ask you for a picture?", the guy continues. Without missing a beat, Jerry blurts out, "_____, can you believe it? A person would walk up to me, ME, while I'm taking my family out to a nice family dinner, interrupt us, and then have the nerve to ask me for a picture. A picture? Can you believe it? Some people!" Jerry never breaks eye-contact with the woman and never again acknowledges the guy standing by his table and family. The guy eventually slumps away back to his table, pays for his meal, and leaves.
dsirijus 13y ago
I'm in favor of playing to one's strengths. You're not really keen on networking and it doesn't really suite you? Fine, don't network. You're much better market fit for being better at what you already do well, than being average at what you do bad.
noelwelsh 13y ago
Good article on a good skill to learn. The number one issue at these events (or at least the geeky ones I go to) is everyone sticks like glue to the people they already know. Safety in numbers and all that. The article only briefly touches on getting into conversations (in "Go to the party alone") so a few things that work for me: - Getting talking to a big group is hard; it's easier with singles or couples. - The drinks or food line is a chance to get talking to people when they've peeled off from their group. Chat to the person behind you (it is easier to initiate eye contact). If the conversation is promising and it's an open bar, ask them what they're getting when you place their order. Saves them a bit of time and keeps the conversation going. - People standing around a table? Say "excuse me", put your drink/food down on the table, and start a conversation. Leading with something about said food/drink is the obvious way to start. Yes, food and drink are really handy props!
- peterwwillis 13y ago
  This behavior can seem a little... creepy. I wouldn't recommend ambushing people; sometimes you just want to get some food or use the bathroom without being bum-rushed by a random creep. Put down the food and drink (it just looks like you're clinging to a safety blanket). Try talking to a huge group out of nowhere and find someone whose body language says they actually want to talk to you. And try not to talk about obvious things as small talk. ("The crab dip is amazing, isn't it?" "Yeah, it is!" Now where's the conversation going to go? Nowhere.)
  - MortenK 13y ago
    You consider striking up a conversation to a person behind you in the food/drinks line as "bum-rushing by a random creep"? Jesus Christ, I really don't think you should be dishing out conversation / networking advice!
    - encoded 13y ago
      Bum-rushing is, IMO, strong, but the problem with striking up a conversation with someone in a line, is that they're more or less a captive audience. If, for some reason, they'd prefer not to speak with you, they have to leave their place in order to do so, and forcing that on them isn't really polite, or fair.
peterwwillis 13y ago
This post has a lot of good points, but i'd like to counter some too. If your nature is to be creepy, trying to fight it isn't going to work; you can't fix creepy, as a friend once told me. But you can learn to be creepy in a good way (that is far too long for me to explain here). Just be friendly, confident, happy, and talk like you don't care what people think of you. If you don't normally do those things, fake it. If you find that difficult, fake it harder. If you go to a party alone you'll seem extra creepy because you have no friends and nobody to build social karma off of. If you're going to be creepy, make it seem like people enjoy your creepiness - the best way to do this is to bring a non-creepy friend to talk to occasionally. But you won't stick to them the whole party. Also, nobody introduces themselves at the bar line unless they want something from you, so don't worry about how seeming popular might put them off of talking to you. Interrupting people has to do with opening up groups and changing conversations. You can do it and risk seeming rude, but if properly executed you can join someone else's group dynamic and refocus the conversation. Don't fall for the passive/submissive greeting crap. How you greet someone, and how you let them greet you, matters greatly - especially in unknown power dynamics where you're trying to get a leg up in social or business standing. Only greet people the way you want to greet them. You do not have an obligation to please everyone or bow to whatever awkward/unwanted social norms they conform to. In the worst case, you trying to mimic their custom might come out even more awkward, which isn't helping your creepy case. You don't have to give every stranger consent to grope or kiss you if you don't want. The best way to introduce yourself to someone you admire is to feign ignorance and treat them like a random joe schmoe. Don't fawn over their clothes or their work. Basically, don't worry about anything at all; make small talk if you want, but don't think too hard about it. Ask them direct questions about a subject you're interested in, as being genuine is hard to fake. And don't be more respectful of their time than any other random at the bar; they're an adult, they'll move on if they feel like it. And honestly, if you find yourself still talking when the place closes down? Good on you! Life's too short to head home before you seem "awkward".
- jessedhillon 13y ago
  I believe this post is a satire of HN, or the obviousness of party/networking advice...? Very funny, if so.
alanctgardner2 13y ago
The best advice I've ever heard about networking had to be "keep asking questions". If you want to initiate a conversation, try to learn about the other person. A lot of people (myself included) think, "Oh, I'll start with a hilarious anecdote about myself" (or a joke about the venue, comment about the event, etc.). This is terrible, and it gives the other person nowhere to go - either they agree and say yes, or they disagree and you're fucked. If you open the conversation by getting the other person to talk, you can pay attention and think about what they say. At this point they're either genuinely interesting, and you keep going, or you politely find an excuse and get the hell out. Let people talk about themselves, but don't get glued to a middle manager at a carpet factory for an hour because he has a million stories about accidentally delivering the wrong pile, or whatever.
dmd 13y ago
The biggest problem I seem to have in these situations is that I can't remember people visually. If I'm introduced to you, and we talk for half an hour, I will not recognize you an hour later. If you remind me who you are, then of course I'll remember the conversation and your name and everything, but I just have zero visual memory of people. This is even to the extent that my wife once sat down next to me on the train (we didn't usually make the same train), and I spent the entire trip thinking "I think I know this woman from somewhere, maybe?" before she finally couldn't hold it in any more and told me who she was. (Yes, I score in the bottom 5% of prosopagnosia tests.)
- examancer 13y ago
  Wow. I have some trouble with faces, but that sounds awful. I'm terrible with names and not very good with faces, so those two issues compound sometimes and make me feel like an ass. Once someone adds in some details of a conversation we previous had it usually comes flooding back, but by then they probably feel a bit slighted as I've let on I don't remember their name from their face, and even with their name I'm obviously still drawing a blank.
- eterm 13y ago
  I also have this problem, combined with my general awkwardness it means I really struggle to network. I even managed to go to a hn meetup and not manage to talk to anyone. I find it particularly awkward when it is obvious someone recognises or remembers me as there is little to no chance I'll recognise them. I ran my local poker club for a year or two and there were people who came every week and I had to ask their names every time. Prosapagnosia really sucks, I sometimes wonder how much my social awkwardness is actually from that trait rather than aspeger's. I'd welcome a good guide on how to network without being "creepy" but sadly TFA was not good advice, it washed over how to initiate conversation with "just do it", useless advice.
- nitrogen 13y ago
  There's probably a way to say, with reassuring confidence, that you aren't good with faces, so if they bump into you again to just remind them what you talked about. I think some things, like not remembering faces (or sometimes in my case, names) are awkward barriers until they're explicitly mentioned and explained.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
pasbesoin 13y ago
Focus on what you can do for the other party. Whether it's just listening, or troubleshooting, or taking advantage of a natural rapport to bring a chuckle. This does not involve or imply becoming a doormat. The thing needs to be mutually enjoyable / beneficial. Then, when someone offers to help you, you'll recognize when the offer is genuine and you are not "imposing". Some connections -- many? -- are simply a dead end. Don't "push it", with these -- for the other party's sake as well as your own.
benched 13y ago
I weep for the rampant explosion of the use of the word "creepy" in the last decade. Someone leering at your ass, or asking if you want to go back to their room to watch fetish porn, is not the same thing as being socially awkward. It's as if people have collectively realized that awkwardness can be a little like figurative social 'death', but then instead of promoting discourse about how to forgive this triviality, everybody says 'No, it might signal something! It's death! We must avoid death!'
- parennoob 13y ago
  Fight it. I do. Whenever someone (stupidly, IMHO) uses "creepy" to refer to a socially awkward guy or girl (in my experience, it is mostly women, and sometimes men who use this epithet about socially awkward men), I generally point out that they are essentially engaging in the same sort of "ugh, he's not cool, let's get away from him" dance that they did in high school. Also the author seems a good candidate for being socially awkward "creepy" person herself. Examples: - #6 "Don’t talk about work. You can of course compliment someone on something they’ve done if you want." Wait what? I thought you were supposed to be networking -- why can't you talk about work? Are you supposed to talk about something personal they have done? Remember that people's careers are often crucified for making "unprofessional" remarks cause the person they were talking to (or the person behind them they were not talking to) can tweet about it or suchlike. - #7 "I definitely find the process of exchanging cards to be incredibly awkward." Um, "Here's my card". If the other person takes it, fine. Otherwise don't take it personally. Looks to me as if the author is projecting advice for dealing with her own specific set of social neuroses as being "non-creepy networking at a party".
- Dirlewanger 13y ago
  Just like the recent degenerative and borderline retarded phrase ("Didn't get any work done today because Internet!") rearing its shit-covered head into modern casual diction, I loathe how people as a whole have ascribed warped connotations to seemingly innocuous behaviors. Scrolling down your Facebook page past the fold to see your previous posts? You're a creeper. No way out of it. It's no longer just looking at someone's profile.
examancer 13y ago
Non-creepy networking step 1: Don't make plans for a "weekend at a weird naked hippie spa together" during your first conversation. Seriously, this article starts out a bit creepy and then follows it mostly with stuff that should be common sense, even for an introvert like me. I did find some of the excuses for non-awkwardly ending a conversation to be decent. Might add a few of those to my list.
saurik 13y ago
> If you hover too long without saying anything, it’s extra creepy. This is a networking event: if I walk up to your clique and you just ignore me, forcing me to stand there until I give up and leave in frustration before you acknowledge my presence and ask who I am, it is not me that is being "rude". It is this kind of isolationist belief that makes it impossible to accumulate groups of people: be charismatic, and make everyone who comes near you get pulled into your conversation; if someone is just standing there, say something to them, don't leave them hanging. Seriously: this article is dangerously wrong on almost everything it tries to cover (the only parts that are on target are the parts at the end about escape and not being drunk); I only chose that one example because no one else here had complained about it yet, but the real complaint that needs to be made is a general "no, don't listen to this article, there are too many issues with it to cover and the result is you are going to come off creepier". [time passes as I look at the article again after having looked at the comments here] Actually, no, I also need to pick on these parts, because I'm actively concerned someone will take them to heart: > A great way to start a conversation with someone you admire (before you say anything about them or their work), is to compliment them on something they’re wearing. Is the idea that this advice is just for women? Because otherwise, this is absolutely deadly advice: as a man, walking up to a woman at a networking event, talking about something other than work (which is also suggested in this article) and leading with a clothing compliment is not "business networking" and is not going to be appreciated by many women. (And if the person you are approaching is a man, he is going to take it as flirting, frankly whether you are yourself male or female ;P.) > In every social interaction, one person usually leads with the greeting and the other person goes with it. They have to. If the person you’re meeting goes in for a hug, ... Now, pair that previous paragraph with this mentality that the person leading a greeting gets to choose its level of intimacy: that a hug is appropriate, and if that's what happens first everyone should be forced to go along with it... this is not OK. To be clear: I'm a "hugger", but I would never greet someone at a business networking event with a hug unless I was trying to be creepy. I can only imagine how bad the result would be taking this attitude and combining it with the specific advice I complained about in the previous paragraph would be construed. I realize the advice was for the receiver, but without concrete advice for the initiator, I think this gives the wrong impression of the dynamic and will lead to unwelcome situations. Here's my very simple advice: walk up to people, if in the US (probably elsewhere as well, but customs differ and you should learn the local protocol) hold out your hand for a handshake, say "hello, my name is ____", wait for their name, and then ask "what do you do?" and try to get genuinely interested in their response. Do not introduce yourself with a spiel about yourself: they don't care yet and won't really listen anyway. Note: while most people will answer this about their job, some people will self-select into more personal hobbies. This is fine, and is the non-creepy way for this to happen, but you are here to business network, so when you've exhausted that topic (and not before, as you don't want to act disinterested) ask them what brings them to the event: this will likely shift them back to their job in a non-awkward way. If they don't talk about a job here, just use this answer in the next section (as it will still be somewhat "functional"). (If they are being actively evasive they probably just don't want to business network with you and the non-"creepy" thing would be to thank them for talking to you and excuse yourself.) At some point they will feel the need to ask you what you do, as you've now spent so long actually caring about what they do (something that is probably sadly rare as everyone wants to talk about themselves). Now you get to tell them how awesome your job is, and as you already know so much about them you can pitch yourself in a way that they will best understand and that hopefully demonstrates some kind of synergy. This will hopefully cause them to start getting interested in you enough to start asking you follow-up questions. At the very end of this conversation, you ask them for a card; if they cared about the conversation enough to ever think about contacting you later (and again, this should be due to the business synergy), they will now ask you for a card: you don't need or want some silly excuse for why you are shoving cards at people (as this article suggests), you want to make the other person wish they had your card. If they don't ask you for a card, you "failed", but forcing them to take your card just so they can throw it away later doesn't fix anything. (I started typing up something about approaching groups, but it got way too complex, and I'm typing on my iPhone ;P.)

111 points by wallflower 13y ago

have a fun and honest excuse about why you absolutely must give them out. > I’m sorry, I just got 500 business cards made and I’ll feel like such an idiot if I don’t give at least one of them out at this party. > I’m dying to get new cards made but I will feel like such a tree-destroyer if I don’t get rid of these first—have one! None of those sound like either fun or honest "excuses"

nkuttler 13y ago
That's what's funny about them.
RBerenguel 13y ago
> As the great card overlord I salute you. Here, join the ranks of my army by taking one of these. For the glory of the business card empire!
lmm 13y ago
They may not be truthful, but I think they're honest in the sense of not deceiving the person you're speaking to.

snowpolar 13y ago

"Don’t be a “close talker”." "Everyone has different needs in terms of personal space, and one of the fastest ways to creep someone out is to get too close to them when having a conversation. If you google “personal space diagram” you’ll see all sorts of sociological visualizations of the degrees of person proximity okay-ness." Reminds me of a ex-friend who always said I'm only a normal friend and yet we always have conversations that I would say is in the very very inner of a personal-space diagram. PS: We r no longer friends due to a misunderstanding. I miss her.

poolpool 13y ago
o no bb wat happened?
- sp332 13y ago
  That's incredibly condescending and uncalled for. I would say "this doesn't belong on hn" but in fact, you shouldn't make fun of anyone, ever.
  - simoncion 13y ago
    Much social bonding is accomplished by gently making fun of one another. If you strip that out, you lose a valuable social tool.
    - sp332 13y ago
      My comment may also have been a little rushed :) Making fun of someone using 'r' for "are" by harping on a relationship problem that obviously still hurts is kinda out of line though.
JosephHatfield 13y ago
My technique for personal space management when "networking" is to let the other person determine how close they want to be. I try not to move away or move in once that distance is set. People seem to react well to this.

afandian 13y ago

Business cards come out when you've had an interesting conversation with someone and you want to stay in contact for one reason or another. If you need to find an excuse to hand one over, you've wasted money and materials. The person on the receiving end hasn't demonstrated that they want one, and you have demonstrated to them that you don't value them.

gedrap 13y ago
Exactly! Once a guy walked up to me "Do you have a job?" "Yeah" "Well have the business card anyway" and walked away. I will remember him but probably not in a way he/the company would like to.

scrrr 13y ago

If you have something interesting to say, say it. If not, don't speak. I sometimes dream of a world where this is the norm. That's why networking is such an "awful word". Also: Produce something of value for the world and networking happens automatically anyway.

girvo 13y ago
Everyone has something interesting to say. I like meeting and talking to new people, it's fun. Is that a bad thing now? You're right on your second point, I agree entirely.
- mhurron 13y ago
  > Everyone has something interesting to say. No they don't. Like that.
  - Jtsummers 13y ago
    I'm not sure I'd go to the extreme of saying everyone, but most people have something interesting to say. That doesn't mean that everything they say is going to be interesting.
EliRivers 13y ago
I sometimes dream of a world where this is the norm. It's a horrible dream. A great deal of human (vocal) social interaction consists of saying things that aren't actually interesting. Nods and "uh huhs" and other such noises, and conversations doing no more than confirming to each other what the weather is like at the moment and how nice/unpleasant that is, and so on. It exists for a reason, and that reason is not to impart interesting information.
- scrrr 13y ago
  Smalltalk? I think it's more important in some cultures, muss less important / annoying in others.
- 13y ago

ps4fanboy 13y ago

I really despise the word creepy, its like rapey and its used to slander men all the time.

Jtsummers 13y ago
That's not really relevant to this article though. It's not "Men: How to not creep out women when networking". It's "People: How to not creep out people when networking".
- dsuth 13y ago
  I was really expecting the former when I clicked the link. Pity, that would have made a better, more directed post IMO

girvo 13y ago

Nice post. For leaving a conversation, I rarely bother with an excuse, I just say something similar to "Hey it's been really awesome meeting you, $person. Ill definitely $contact_in_future_plan!" Seems to work just fine :)

sfjailbird 13y ago

You are overthinking it. If it doesn't come naturally to you (like the author by her own admission), there is likely a good reason that you find it uncomfortable. Like maybe you actually don't have anything interesting to share. Or you don't really care about the people you are meeting. In either case, no point in faking it or pretending, find a social context that you actually enjoy. Lots of people are shy in general gatherings but completely light up in the company of others who share their (geeky) interests.

thisone 13y ago
I've found quite good reason to fake it. It actually has made me a happier person. I talk much less about myself and learn much more about other people. Whether I'm really truly, deeply interested is not the point. When it comes to working with people, I find it easier to get consensus and motivate people when I know what it is they want. By getting truly interested in other people, it's much easier for me to know what motivates them.
personlurking 13y ago
"Or you don't really care about the people you are meeting." I've been to very few of these events and at one I approached one of the people who gave a short talk earlier in the evening to merely ask him more about his business. Towards the end of my first spoken sentence to the guy, he turned to his female cohort and blurted, "wow, did you hear that, Kristy?" (as she sticks her hand in front of me, while he walks away). It all happened in the span of 5 seconds and I couldn't decide if it was just really smooth on his part (being a seasoned networker) or really douchey. I decided it was both. 'Kristy' was also pouring some drinks for some other people at the moment and thus couldn't talk after the initial handshake.
- woebtz 13y ago
  Whoa, unless I'm completely reading this the wrong way, this sounds like a classic Jerry Seinfeld anecdote: a guy eating at a restaurant notices Jerry Seinfeld sitting at a table across the way with a woman and some children. Being a fan of the show, the guy feels compelled to say hello and meet one of his favorite TV stars. He's nearly done with his own meal and after Seinfeld's table's orders have been taken, he makes his approach: "Mr. Seinfeld! Hi, I'm ____. I'm a huge fan of your work...", the guy says with eyes gleaming. Seinfeld briefly glances at the man and then turns towards the woman he's seated next to and smiles. "Would it be a bother to ask you for a picture?", the guy continues. Without missing a beat, Jerry blurts out, "_____, can you believe it? A person would walk up to me, ME, while I'm taking my family out to a nice family dinner, interrupt us, and then have the nerve to ask me for a picture. A picture? Can you believe it? Some people!" Jerry never breaks eye-contact with the woman and never again acknowledges the guy standing by his table and family. The guy eventually slumps away back to his table, pays for his meal, and leaves.

dsirijus 13y ago

I'm in favor of playing to one's strengths. You're not really keen on networking and it doesn't really suite you? Fine, don't network. You're much better market fit for being better at what you already do well, than being average at what you do bad.

noelwelsh 13y ago

Good article on a good skill to learn. The number one issue at these events (or at least the geeky ones I go to) is everyone sticks like glue to the people they already know. Safety in numbers and all that. The article only briefly touches on getting into conversations (in "Go to the party alone") so a few things that work for me: - Getting talking to a big group is hard; it's easier with singles or couples. - The drinks or food line is a chance to get talking to people when they've peeled off from their group. Chat to the person behind you (it is easier to initiate eye contact). If the conversation is promising and it's an open bar, ask them what they're getting when you place their order. Saves them a bit of time and keeps the conversation going. - People standing around a table? Say "excuse me", put your drink/food down on the table, and start a conversation. Leading with something about said food/drink is the obvious way to start. Yes, food and drink are really handy props!

peterwwillis 13y ago
This behavior can seem a little... creepy. I wouldn't recommend ambushing people; sometimes you just want to get some food or use the bathroom without being bum-rushed by a random creep. Put down the food and drink (it just looks like you're clinging to a safety blanket). Try talking to a huge group out of nowhere and find someone whose body language says they actually want to talk to you. And try not to talk about obvious things as small talk. ("The crab dip is amazing, isn't it?" "Yeah, it is!" Now where's the conversation going to go? Nowhere.)
- MortenK 13y ago
  You consider striking up a conversation to a person behind you in the food/drinks line as "bum-rushing by a random creep"? Jesus Christ, I really don't think you should be dishing out conversation / networking advice!
  - encoded 13y ago
    Bum-rushing is, IMO, strong, but the problem with striking up a conversation with someone in a line, is that they're more or less a captive audience. If, for some reason, they'd prefer not to speak with you, they have to leave their place in order to do so, and forcing that on them isn't really polite, or fair.

peterwwillis 13y ago

This post has a lot of good points, but i'd like to counter some too. If your nature is to be creepy, trying to fight it isn't going to work; you can't fix creepy, as a friend once told me. But you can learn to be creepy in a good way (that is far too long for me to explain here). Just be friendly, confident, happy, and talk like you don't care what people think of you. If you don't normally do those things, fake it. If you find that difficult, fake it harder. If you go to a party alone you'll seem extra creepy because you have no friends and nobody to build social karma off of. If you're going to be creepy, make it seem like people enjoy your creepiness - the best way to do this is to bring a non-creepy friend to talk to occasionally. But you won't stick to them the whole party. Also, nobody introduces themselves at the bar line unless they want something from you, so don't worry about how seeming popular might put them off of talking to you. Interrupting people has to do with opening up groups and changing conversations. You can do it and risk seeming rude, but if properly executed you can join someone else's group dynamic and refocus the conversation. Don't fall for the passive/submissive greeting crap. How you greet someone, and how you let them greet you, matters greatly - especially in unknown power dynamics where you're trying to get a leg up in social or business standing. Only greet people the way you want to greet them. You do not have an obligation to please everyone or bow to whatever awkward/unwanted social norms they conform to. In the worst case, you trying to mimic their custom might come out even more awkward, which isn't helping your creepy case. You don't have to give every stranger consent to grope or kiss you if you don't want. The best way to introduce yourself to someone you admire is to feign ignorance and treat them like a random joe schmoe. Don't fawn over their clothes or their work. Basically, don't worry about anything at all; make small talk if you want, but don't think too hard about it. Ask them direct questions about a subject you're interested in, as being genuine is hard to fake. And don't be more respectful of their time than any other random at the bar; they're an adult, they'll move on if they feel like it. And honestly, if you find yourself still talking when the place closes down? Good on you! Life's too short to head home before you seem "awkward".

jessedhillon 13y ago
I believe this post is a satire of HN, or the obviousness of party/networking advice...? Very funny, if so.

alanctgardner2 13y ago

The best advice I've ever heard about networking had to be "keep asking questions". If you want to initiate a conversation, try to learn about the other person. A lot of people (myself included) think, "Oh, I'll start with a hilarious anecdote about myself" (or a joke about the venue, comment about the event, etc.). This is terrible, and it gives the other person nowhere to go - either they agree and say yes, or they disagree and you're fucked. If you open the conversation by getting the other person to talk, you can pay attention and think about what they say. At this point they're either genuinely interesting, and you keep going, or you politely find an excuse and get the hell out. Let people talk about themselves, but don't get glued to a middle manager at a carpet factory for an hour because he has a million stories about accidentally delivering the wrong pile, or whatever.

dmd 13y ago

The biggest problem I seem to have in these situations is that I can't remember people visually. If I'm introduced to you, and we talk for half an hour, I will not recognize you an hour later. If you remind me who you are, then of course I'll remember the conversation and your name and everything, but I just have zero visual memory of people. This is even to the extent that my wife once sat down next to me on the train (we didn't usually make the same train), and I spent the entire trip thinking "I think I know this woman from somewhere, maybe?" before she finally couldn't hold it in any more and told me who she was. (Yes, I score in the bottom 5% of prosopagnosia tests.)

examancer 13y ago
Wow. I have some trouble with faces, but that sounds awful. I'm terrible with names and not very good with faces, so those two issues compound sometimes and make me feel like an ass. Once someone adds in some details of a conversation we previous had it usually comes flooding back, but by then they probably feel a bit slighted as I've let on I don't remember their name from their face, and even with their name I'm obviously still drawing a blank.
eterm 13y ago
I also have this problem, combined with my general awkwardness it means I really struggle to network. I even managed to go to a hn meetup and not manage to talk to anyone. I find it particularly awkward when it is obvious someone recognises or remembers me as there is little to no chance I'll recognise them. I ran my local poker club for a year or two and there were people who came every week and I had to ask their names every time. Prosapagnosia really sucks, I sometimes wonder how much my social awkwardness is actually from that trait rather than aspeger's. I'd welcome a good guide on how to network without being "creepy" but sadly TFA was not good advice, it washed over how to initiate conversation with "just do it", useless advice.
nitrogen 13y ago
There's probably a way to say, with reassuring confidence, that you aren't good with faces, so if they bump into you again to just remind them what you talked about. I think some things, like not remembering faces (or sometimes in my case, names) are awkward barriers until they're explicitly mentioned and explained.

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pasbesoin 13y ago

Focus on what you can do for the other party. Whether it's just listening, or troubleshooting, or taking advantage of a natural rapport to bring a chuckle. This does not involve or imply becoming a doormat. The thing needs to be mutually enjoyable / beneficial. Then, when someone offers to help you, you'll recognize when the offer is genuine and you are not "imposing". Some connections -- many? -- are simply a dead end. Don't "push it", with these -- for the other party's sake as well as your own.

benched 13y ago

I weep for the rampant explosion of the use of the word "creepy" in the last decade. Someone leering at your ass, or asking if you want to go back to their room to watch fetish porn, is not the same thing as being socially awkward. It's as if people have collectively realized that awkwardness can be a little like figurative social 'death', but then instead of promoting discourse about how to forgive this triviality, everybody says 'No, it might signal something! It's death! We must avoid death!'

parennoob 13y ago
Fight it. I do. Whenever someone (stupidly, IMHO) uses "creepy" to refer to a socially awkward guy or girl (in my experience, it is mostly women, and sometimes men who use this epithet about socially awkward men), I generally point out that they are essentially engaging in the same sort of "ugh, he's not cool, let's get away from him" dance that they did in high school. Also the author seems a good candidate for being socially awkward "creepy" person herself. Examples: - #6 "Don’t talk about work. You can of course compliment someone on something they’ve done if you want." Wait what? I thought you were supposed to be networking -- why can't you talk about work? Are you supposed to talk about something personal they have done? Remember that people's careers are often crucified for making "unprofessional" remarks cause the person they were talking to (or the person behind them they were not talking to) can tweet about it or suchlike. - #7 "I definitely find the process of exchanging cards to be incredibly awkward." Um, "Here's my card". If the other person takes it, fine. Otherwise don't take it personally. Looks to me as if the author is projecting advice for dealing with her own specific set of social neuroses as being "non-creepy networking at a party".
Dirlewanger 13y ago
Just like the recent degenerative and borderline retarded phrase ("Didn't get any work done today because Internet!") rearing its shit-covered head into modern casual diction, I loathe how people as a whole have ascribed warped connotations to seemingly innocuous behaviors. Scrolling down your Facebook page past the fold to see your previous posts? You're a creeper. No way out of it. It's no longer just looking at someone's profile.

examancer 13y ago

Non-creepy networking step 1: Don't make plans for a "weekend at a weird naked hippie spa together" during your first conversation. Seriously, this article starts out a bit creepy and then follows it mostly with stuff that should be common sense, even for an introvert like me. I did find some of the excuses for non-awkwardly ending a conversation to be decent. Might add a few of those to my list.

saurik 13y ago

> If you hover too long without saying anything, it’s extra creepy. This is a networking event: if I walk up to your clique and you just ignore me, forcing me to stand there until I give up and leave in frustration before you acknowledge my presence and ask who I am, it is not me that is being "rude". It is this kind of isolationist belief that makes it impossible to accumulate groups of people: be charismatic, and make everyone who comes near you get pulled into your conversation; if someone is just standing there, say something to them, don't leave them hanging. Seriously: this article is dangerously wrong on almost everything it tries to cover (the only parts that are on target are the parts at the end about escape and not being drunk); I only chose that one example because no one else here had complained about it yet, but the real complaint that needs to be made is a general "no, don't listen to this article, there are too many issues with it to cover and the result is you are going to come off creepier". [time passes as I look at the article again after having looked at the comments here] Actually, no, I also need to pick on these parts, because I'm actively concerned someone will take them to heart: > A great way to start a conversation with someone you admire (before you say anything about them or their work), is to compliment them on something they’re wearing. Is the idea that this advice is just for women? Because otherwise, this is absolutely deadly advice: as a man, walking up to a woman at a networking event, talking about something other than work (which is also suggested in this article) and leading with a clothing compliment is not "business networking" and is not going to be appreciated by many women. (And if the person you are approaching is a man, he is going to take it as flirting, frankly whether you are yourself male or female ;P.) > In every social interaction, one person usually leads with the greeting and the other person goes with it. They have to. If the person you’re meeting goes in for a hug, ... Now, pair that previous paragraph with this mentality that the person leading a greeting gets to choose its level of intimacy: that a hug is appropriate, and if that's what happens first everyone should be forced to go along with it... this is not OK. To be clear: I'm a "hugger", but I would never greet someone at a business networking event with a hug unless I was trying to be creepy. I can only imagine how bad the result would be taking this attitude and combining it with the specific advice I complained about in the previous paragraph would be construed. I realize the advice was for the receiver, but without concrete advice for the initiator, I think this gives the wrong impression of the dynamic and will lead to unwelcome situations. Here's my very simple advice: walk up to people, if in the US (probably elsewhere as well, but customs differ and you should learn the local protocol) hold out your hand for a handshake, say "hello, my name is ____", wait for their name, and then ask "what do you do?" and try to get genuinely interested in their response. Do not introduce yourself with a spiel about yourself: they don't care yet and won't really listen anyway. Note: while most people will answer this about their job, some people will self-select into more personal hobbies. This is fine, and is the non-creepy way for this to happen, but you are here to business network, so when you've exhausted that topic (and not before, as you don't want to act disinterested) ask them what brings them to the event: this will likely shift them back to their job in a non-awkward way. If they don't talk about a job here, just use this answer in the next section (as it will still be somewhat "functional"). (If they are being actively evasive they probably just don't want to business network with you and the non-"creepy" thing would be to thank them for talking to you and excuse yourself.) At some point they will feel the need to ask you what you do, as you've now spent so long actually caring about what they do (something that is probably sadly rare as everyone wants to talk about themselves). Now you get to tell them how awesome your job is, and as you already know so much about them you can pitch yourself in a way that they will best understand and that hopefully demonstrates some kind of synergy. This will hopefully cause them to start getting interested in you enough to start asking you follow-up questions. At the very end of this conversation, you ask them for a card; if they cared about the conversation enough to ever think about contacting you later (and again, this should be due to the business synergy), they will now ask you for a card: you don't need or want some silly excuse for why you are shoving cards at people (as this article suggests), you want to make the other person wish they had your card. If they don't ask you for a card, you "failed", but forcing them to take your card just so they can throw it away later doesn't fix anything. (I started typing up something about approaching groups, but it got way too complex, and I'm typing on my iPhone ;P.)