8 ms·

It strikes me that Zed has been on the receiving end of way more bullying than he has given out (including being called a cock by you in this very post)

by kibibu 13y ago

termain 13y ago
"I thought of you as" is not the same thing as "you are a".
- tempestn 13y ago
  It still makes for a pretty damned backhanded compliment.
  - singular 13y ago
    Understandable that it came off that way, genuinely not intended as that. It's bloody hard to express something sincerely on the internet without sounding like you're just being sarcastic.
    - tempestn 13y ago
      IMO the best way to go about it in this case would have been simply to express your appreciation/admiration/whatever for his actions here, and ignore the past. That would clearly imply that you've at least somewhat adjusted your opinion, without having to explicitly bring it up. Of course, it also wouldn't have spawned a hundred-comment sub-thread.
  - Semaphor 13y ago
    Why? I'd rather have someone tell me what they thought of me and that I managed to change their mind.
    - tempestn 13y ago
      I can understand that POV, but I expect you're in the minority. Most people in my experience respond better to "I respect you," than to "I used to think you were a cock, but now I'm reconsidering and starting to respect you."
hbags 13y ago
Speaking of cocks, the technical leadership at two well-funded startups systematically harassed Zed by adding him to github repos that contained nothing but ASCII cocks. I know this because they bragged about it openly, thinking it hilarious. Zed takes a lot of abuse for little reason. I debated naming the companies here, but they appear to be failing anyway. Probably because they hired the sort of people who find harassment hilarious. edit: removed oblique reference to one of the companies. I don't feel like giving those firms any publicity, even if it's bad publicity.
- kstop 13y ago
  Reason: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome
- joseph_cooney 13y ago
  Time to name and shame.
- rrouse 13y ago
  For those that don't know what hbags is referring to: https://github.com/moron5/dongml https://github.com/moron5/dongml Apparently the twitter account referenced on moron5.com is still active and is passively still trying to be a dick https://twitter.com/elotente https://twitter.com/elotente
  - aaronem 13y ago
    Who let the 4chan kids out of their cages? Edit: No, seriously, that "DongML" stuff is like something 4chan's technology board might aspire to, if they could put down their bongs and endless WM tweaking for five minutes in a row.
kunai 13y ago
Well, he did call _why a dick (which is just a no in my book), but when all is said and done I think this is irrelevant. He's giving a guy in need a hand, and I think we should all look up to Zed for it.
singular 13y ago
"I have for a while thought of you as (total honesty here) a bullying cock" Notice the past tense. I based that opinion on the many aggressive attacking posts by Zed (for which he is well-known), particularly the attack of Mark Pilgrim (now deleted.) That impression may be right or it may be wrong, but for good or for bad it's one that I got, and I felt my not mentioning that or hedging it here would be intellectually dishonest. Note what I said next:- "but this comment which is sincere, genuine and offered to someone for whom this could be greatly helpful has made me seriously reconsider. Kudos." Which I really meant sincerely. It was actually meant to be a genuine compliment, but it is really hard to put that across without sounding sarcastic. Ah well.
- zedshaw 13y ago
  Again, rewriting history. I attacked Mark only after he refused to fix his book, despite my offer of help, and told me to go fuck myself. He'd also attacked many other people in an exactly similar way before I did. I mean, c'mon, all I did was replicate this post Mark did: http://web.archive.org/web/20070418001022/http://diveintomark.org/archives/2007/04/16/dhh-translation http://web.archive.org/web/20070418001022/http://diveintomar... I didn't see you calling Mark a cock after he wrote that. And, let's not forget that when Mark did take his gear off the internet I was sympathetic and told people to not "kick a man when he's down", something I'm damn sure he wouldn't do for me. So if you're bringing out Mark Pilgrim as your shining example of people I "bullied" you pretty much picked about the worst example ever. Mark was a dick who shit on quite a few people in his day and deserved a little bit in return. Thinking that he was some choirboy that I beat up is a very naive way to view the world, but that's what I expect from someone who builds up mythical opinions of people they've never met. Anyway, closing this tab now. I've sent out about 60 emails helping people find work and will be looking at about 10 resumes tomorrow in the time it took you to write these little comments. You rock dude!
  - singular 13y ago
    I don't think it's rewriting history to say you were aggressive and attacking, I do absolutely accept that you might have been 100% in the right and justified in that. I got the impression you were being bullying - my whole point here is that I felt I was wrong, and your kindness made me reconsider. My little comments (indeed they are little, I make no claims otherwise) were actually genuinely and seriously meant to be complimentary while being open and direct about the impression I had. Actually, please do ignore me and carry on helping people. These kind of arguments are a waste of time, what you're doing to help these people isn't. I admire it.

It strikes me that Zed has been on the receiving end of way more bullying than he has given out (including being called a cock by you in this very post)

by kibibu 13y ago

It strikes me that Zed has been on the receiving end of way more bullying than he has given out (including being called a cock by you in this very post)

termain 13y ago

"I thought of you as" is not the same thing as "you are a".

tempestn 13y ago
It still makes for a pretty damned backhanded compliment.
- singular 13y ago
  Understandable that it came off that way, genuinely not intended as that. It's bloody hard to express something sincerely on the internet without sounding like you're just being sarcastic.
  - tempestn 13y ago
    IMO the best way to go about it in this case would have been simply to express your appreciation/admiration/whatever for his actions here, and ignore the past. That would clearly imply that you've at least somewhat adjusted your opinion, without having to explicitly bring it up. Of course, it also wouldn't have spawned a hundred-comment sub-thread.
- Semaphor 13y ago
  Why? I'd rather have someone tell me what they thought of me and that I managed to change their mind.
  - tempestn 13y ago
    I can understand that POV, but I expect you're in the minority. Most people in my experience respond better to "I respect you," than to "I used to think you were a cock, but now I'm reconsidering and starting to respect you."

hbags 13y ago

Speaking of cocks, the technical leadership at two well-funded startups systematically harassed Zed by adding him to github repos that contained nothing but ASCII cocks. I know this because they bragged about it openly, thinking it hilarious. Zed takes a lot of abuse for little reason. I debated naming the companies here, but they appear to be failing anyway. Probably because they hired the sort of people who find harassment hilarious. edit: removed oblique reference to one of the companies. I don't feel like giving those firms any publicity, even if it's bad publicity.

kstop 13y ago
Reason: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome
joseph_cooney 13y ago
Time to name and shame.
rrouse 13y ago
For those that don't know what hbags is referring to: https://github.com/moron5/dongml https://github.com/moron5/dongml Apparently the twitter account referenced on moron5.com is still active and is passively still trying to be a dick https://twitter.com/elotente https://twitter.com/elotente
- aaronem 13y ago
  Who let the 4chan kids out of their cages? Edit: No, seriously, that "DongML" stuff is like something 4chan's technology board might aspire to, if they could put down their bongs and endless WM tweaking for five minutes in a row.

kunai 13y ago

Well, he did call _why a dick (which is just a no in my book), but when all is said and done I think this is irrelevant. He's giving a guy in need a hand, and I think we should all look up to Zed for it.

singular 13y ago

"I have for a while thought of you as (total honesty here) a bullying cock" Notice the past tense. I based that opinion on the many aggressive attacking posts by Zed (for which he is well-known), particularly the attack of Mark Pilgrim (now deleted.) That impression may be right or it may be wrong, but for good or for bad it's one that I got, and I felt my not mentioning that or hedging it here would be intellectually dishonest. Note what I said next:- "but this comment which is sincere, genuine and offered to someone for whom this could be greatly helpful has made me seriously reconsider. Kudos." Which I really meant sincerely. It was actually meant to be a genuine compliment, but it is really hard to put that across without sounding sarcastic. Ah well.

zedshaw 13y ago
Again, rewriting history. I attacked Mark only after he refused to fix his book, despite my offer of help, and told me to go fuck myself. He'd also attacked many other people in an exactly similar way before I did. I mean, c'mon, all I did was replicate this post Mark did: http://web.archive.org/web/20070418001022/http://diveintomark.org/archives/2007/04/16/dhh-translation http://web.archive.org/web/20070418001022/http://diveintomar... I didn't see you calling Mark a cock after he wrote that. And, let's not forget that when Mark did take his gear off the internet I was sympathetic and told people to not "kick a man when he's down", something I'm damn sure he wouldn't do for me. So if you're bringing out Mark Pilgrim as your shining example of people I "bullied" you pretty much picked about the worst example ever. Mark was a dick who shit on quite a few people in his day and deserved a little bit in return. Thinking that he was some choirboy that I beat up is a very naive way to view the world, but that's what I expect from someone who builds up mythical opinions of people they've never met. Anyway, closing this tab now. I've sent out about 60 emails helping people find work and will be looking at about 10 resumes tomorrow in the time it took you to write these little comments. You rock dude!
- singular 13y ago
  I don't think it's rewriting history to say you were aggressive and attacking, I do absolutely accept that you might have been 100% in the right and justified in that. I got the impression you were being bullying - my whole point here is that I felt I was wrong, and your kindness made me reconsider. My little comments (indeed they are little, I make no claims otherwise) were actually genuinely and seriously meant to be complimentary while being open and direct about the impression I had. Actually, please do ignore me and carry on helping people. These kind of arguments are a waste of time, what you're doing to help these people isn't. I admire it.