4 ms·

The actual ad seems a lot less disturbing than Marco's write-up of it... the main thing I notice is it seems to avoid the typical grinning-HR-guy-speak and soun

The actual ad seems a lot less disturbing than Marco's write-up of it... the main thing I notice is it seems to avoid the typical grinning-HR-guy-speak and sounds more like they're being honest about things. This clearly isn't the job for everybody (obviously not Marco), but there are plenty of people out there who are (as the ad puts it) "not terribly money-motivated" and would be willing to work hard to be in a cool environment with cool people. [Some of the best jobs I've had have been for absurdly low salaries, but I don't regret them for a nanosecond...] Given who wrote the ad, I also wouldn't be surprised if they're exaggerating a wee bit and making it sound rather scarier than it really is. Having a small outfit with reasonable people in charge (and whatever faults they have, I don't think PA are really psychopathic-startup-CEOs in disguise) is one of the best insurances there is against a truly unreasonable work environment. Sugar-coated job ads are an insurance against nothing.... If anything, I'm more disturbed by Marco's rush to judgement...

a_bonobo 13y ago
>would be willing to work hard I don't think the issues is with working hard - the issue is with parts of the industry expecting people to work so much that it's beyond "working hard" and becomes damaging, and I think (and I think the author in OP's link does too) that there has to be a change in developers' mindsets to protect themselves from negative consequences.
snowwrestler 13y ago
The funny thing is that this was actually the job for Marco when he was younger at Tumblr--as he admits. But now that he's older and more successful, it looks like a bad deal. Which it is--for older more successful people. For a youngster with a light resume and a thirst for excitement, though, it might be perfect.
- hraedon 13y ago
  God, did you even read his response? He took a similar job for a few years out of college but required and received competitive pay and equity (!) as well as a reasonable work/life balance. He was allowed to learn parts of that job on the fly: ie, he didn't come into it with the expectation that he know every aspect of it day one. PA wants someone who not only has expert-level experience in several disciplines but is willing to work such a job to the exclusion of anything else while not getting paid a competitive salary nor receiving any sort of stake in their gaming media empire. This is absolutely in keeping with the worst inclinations of this industry, made worse by PA's knowledge of these practices in many of the companies they cover. So, no, they are wildly different. This job is a good deal for no one and you do an immense disservice by carrying water for people that should know better.
- vellum 13y ago
  He didn't say Tumblr was a bad deal. He was newbie when he started, David paid him decently, and he worked regular hours. I required, and was given, a great salary plus stock, a nice office environment, and a healthy work-life balance. His issue with this job is that they're looking to hire an experienced unicorn on the cheap, then they're going to work it to death.
wpietri 13y ago
I read the ad before seeing Marco's comments, and I had exactly the same reaction as him. A friend in the gaming industry posted the Penny Arcade ad to Facebook, and I clicked on it out of curiosity. I was appalled. When I went back to FB later, 4 different people had commented about what a terrible job it was.
ilyanep 13y ago
You make it sound like one has to give up the money aspect of a CS job to get the "cool environment with cool people." I would argue that a good developer or sysadmin should be able to land a job with both. I certainly have one with a very competitive salary and excellent co-workers. Truth be told, this job doesn't offer anything in exchange for claiming it'll offer a lower-than-market salary, and requires the worker to be a workaholic. All for what? Powering a website.
lotsofcows 13y ago
I agree. The ad is very honest in it's requirements as far as I'm concerned. They're aiming it at competent fans. They're expecting a huge response. I think they'll get one. If this was published back when I was in my late 20s, the job spec would have been an ok match and I would have applied. I think working in that environment for a few years would be a great buzz and would give me the opportunity to learn loads.

a_bonobo 13y ago

>would be willing to work hard I don't think the issues is with working hard - the issue is with parts of the industry expecting people to work so much that it's beyond "working hard" and becomes damaging, and I think (and I think the author in OP's link does too) that there has to be a change in developers' mindsets to protect themselves from negative consequences.

snowwrestler 13y ago

The funny thing is that this was actually the job for Marco when he was younger at Tumblr--as he admits. But now that he's older and more successful, it looks like a bad deal. Which it is--for older more successful people. For a youngster with a light resume and a thirst for excitement, though, it might be perfect.

hraedon 13y ago
God, did you even read his response? He took a similar job for a few years out of college but required and received competitive pay and equity (!) as well as a reasonable work/life balance. He was allowed to learn parts of that job on the fly: ie, he didn't come into it with the expectation that he know every aspect of it day one. PA wants someone who not only has expert-level experience in several disciplines but is willing to work such a job to the exclusion of anything else while not getting paid a competitive salary nor receiving any sort of stake in their gaming media empire. This is absolutely in keeping with the worst inclinations of this industry, made worse by PA's knowledge of these practices in many of the companies they cover. So, no, they are wildly different. This job is a good deal for no one and you do an immense disservice by carrying water for people that should know better.
vellum 13y ago
He didn't say Tumblr was a bad deal. He was newbie when he started, David paid him decently, and he worked regular hours. I required, and was given, a great salary plus stock, a nice office environment, and a healthy work-life balance. His issue with this job is that they're looking to hire an experienced unicorn on the cheap, then they're going to work it to death.

wpietri 13y ago

I read the ad before seeing Marco's comments, and I had exactly the same reaction as him. A friend in the gaming industry posted the Penny Arcade ad to Facebook, and I clicked on it out of curiosity. I was appalled. When I went back to FB later, 4 different people had commented about what a terrible job it was.

ilyanep 13y ago

You make it sound like one has to give up the money aspect of a CS job to get the "cool environment with cool people." I would argue that a good developer or sysadmin should be able to land a job with both. I certainly have one with a very competitive salary and excellent co-workers. Truth be told, this job doesn't offer anything in exchange for claiming it'll offer a lower-than-market salary, and requires the worker to be a workaholic. All for what? Powering a website.

lotsofcows 13y ago

I agree. The ad is very honest in it's requirements as far as I'm concerned. They're aiming it at competent fans. They're expecting a huge response. I think they'll get one. If this was published back when I was in my late 20s, the job spec would have been an ok match and I would have applied. I think working in that environment for a few years would be a great buzz and would give me the opportunity to learn loads.