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This doesn't answer the question of why FDA bans products and services instead of simply informing consumers of possible dangers and letting them decide for the

by snitko 13y ago

This doesn't answer the question of why FDA bans products and services instead of simply informing consumers of possible dangers and letting them decide for themselves. Government has the largest resources to reach out to people, so any message it would want to communicate, it could. If the government really cared about consumers, it would go after homeopathy dealers, religious leaders and other charlatans. Never gonna happen. Why do you think that is? Why homeopathy existed for such a long time and never had any problems with authorities, but a startup that actually provides some value to people, suddenly is a threat that needs to be shut down?

hackinthebochs 13y ago
>why FDA bans products and services instead of simply informing consumers of possible dangers Because that costs money that they shouldn't have to spend. If a company is marketing a product as X, why should the FDA have to counter with marketing that says product is actually ~X, rather than simply stop the marketing as X? I'm sure homeopathy dealers aren't allowed to make medical claims. Perhaps the FDA doesn't go after them as stringently as you might like, but lets not pretend that they have free reign.
- snitko 13y ago
  So use force instead of convincing people, because it's easier and cheaper. My problem with any regulatory agency is that it can't claim to work on behalf its clients. Why? Because funding comes from taxes and taxation is not voluntary. No one asks people whether they want to pay taxes or not. They still have to or they will be fined even more or will go to jail. Thus, FDA lacks basic market mechanisms that could check such a consumer protection firm in check. If a group of people feel dissatisfaction with their work - fuck them, who cares? They're still getting their funding. Homeopathy dealers are having a great time and make tons of money. They may not make medical claims, but that doesn't stop them from hurting a lot of people by offering something those people believe is a cure. Let's not pretend government does anything to stop it, really.
  - hackinthebochs 13y ago
    Personally I feel the libertarian premise is absurd so anything that follows, however rational, is nonsense to me. I don't think we can have a productive discussion.
dragonwriter 13y ago
> This doesn't answer the question of why FDA bans products and services instead of simply informing consumers of possible dangers and letting them decide for themselves. To the extent that it does this, it does it because the FD&C Act set standards by which they are required to. Why Congress did that is a different question. But, it must be noted, that what they are doing here is not banning a product, they are prohibiting the marketing of a product for a particular set of advertised uses without meeting particular standards of proof that it is effective for those marketed uses. > If the government really cared about consumers, it would go after homeopathy dealers, religious leaders and other charlatans. Never gonna happen. Why do you think that is? In the case of homeopathy, which is regulated by the FDA, it is less regulated to less stringent standards than traditional medical products and devices largely due to public pressure. > but a startup that actually provides some value to people, suddenly is a threat that needs to be shut down? 23andMe is "suddenly" a "threat that nees to be shut down". They were notified years ago of the requirements they needed to meet to market the product the way they do, they initiated the application process to meet those requirements in 2012, and haven't responded to FDA requests for further information necessary to move forward on those applications for over a year. You act as if the FDA noticed the existence of 23andMe and immediately moved to destroy them. That is very much not what has happened.
- snitko 13y ago
  The question is not whether they were notified or not. The question is whether you believe that you yourself, as a taxpayer who funds the FDA, have the right to order people what to spend their money on and how to live their lives. It doesn't matter if a person is going to hurt himself or not. Why should it be in your power to take away someone else's freedom in the name of safety this person might not even want? Looking at this particular case of 23andme I will tell you this. It's ridiculous. The claim is that somehow consumers might act in a way that can hurt them based on the information they received from the company. That sounds a lot like censorship to me. In Russia now people are prevented to look at sites that promote suicide or drug use. It's essentially the same thing: sites are notified, if they refuse to remove the information, they are banned within Russia. Hey, we want to protect our people.

by snitko 13y ago

hackinthebochs 13y ago

>why FDA bans products and services instead of simply informing consumers of possible dangers Because that costs money that they shouldn't have to spend. If a company is marketing a product as X, why should the FDA have to counter with marketing that says product is actually ~X, rather than simply stop the marketing as X? I'm sure homeopathy dealers aren't allowed to make medical claims. Perhaps the FDA doesn't go after them as stringently as you might like, but lets not pretend that they have free reign.

snitko 13y ago
So use force instead of convincing people, because it's easier and cheaper. My problem with any regulatory agency is that it can't claim to work on behalf its clients. Why? Because funding comes from taxes and taxation is not voluntary. No one asks people whether they want to pay taxes or not. They still have to or they will be fined even more or will go to jail. Thus, FDA lacks basic market mechanisms that could check such a consumer protection firm in check. If a group of people feel dissatisfaction with their work - fuck them, who cares? They're still getting their funding. Homeopathy dealers are having a great time and make tons of money. They may not make medical claims, but that doesn't stop them from hurting a lot of people by offering something those people believe is a cure. Let's not pretend government does anything to stop it, really.
- hackinthebochs 13y ago
  Personally I feel the libertarian premise is absurd so anything that follows, however rational, is nonsense to me. I don't think we can have a productive discussion.

dragonwriter 13y ago

> This doesn't answer the question of why FDA bans products and services instead of simply informing consumers of possible dangers and letting them decide for themselves. To the extent that it does this, it does it because the FD&C Act set standards by which they are required to. Why Congress did that is a different question. But, it must be noted, that what they are doing here is not banning a product, they are prohibiting the marketing of a product for a particular set of advertised uses without meeting particular standards of proof that it is effective for those marketed uses. > If the government really cared about consumers, it would go after homeopathy dealers, religious leaders and other charlatans. Never gonna happen. Why do you think that is? In the case of homeopathy, which is regulated by the FDA, it is less regulated to less stringent standards than traditional medical products and devices largely due to public pressure. > but a startup that actually provides some value to people, suddenly is a threat that needs to be shut down? 23andMe is "suddenly" a "threat that nees to be shut down". They were notified years ago of the requirements they needed to meet to market the product the way they do, they initiated the application process to meet those requirements in 2012, and haven't responded to FDA requests for further information necessary to move forward on those applications for over a year. You act as if the FDA noticed the existence of 23andMe and immediately moved to destroy them. That is very much not what has happened.

snitko 13y ago
The question is not whether they were notified or not. The question is whether you believe that you yourself, as a taxpayer who funds the FDA, have the right to order people what to spend their money on and how to live their lives. It doesn't matter if a person is going to hurt himself or not. Why should it be in your power to take away someone else's freedom in the name of safety this person might not even want? Looking at this particular case of 23andme I will tell you this. It's ridiculous. The claim is that somehow consumers might act in a way that can hurt them based on the information they received from the company. That sounds a lot like censorship to me. In Russia now people are prevented to look at sites that promote suicide or drug use. It's essentially the same thing: sites are notified, if they refuse to remove the information, they are banned within Russia. Hey, we want to protect our people.