5 ms·

> Yes! Let them eat beans! Preferably in their apartments. No, seriously now. I've got a friend who 5 years ago decided that he needs "to straighten his life

> Yes! Let them eat beans! Preferably in their apartments. No, seriously now. I've got a friend who 5 years ago decided that he needs "to straighten his life out", and now he has a huge house in SV and is lead engineer at Apple. That's really fine, and obviously not everyone can have such a life. And people will really have to look inside themselves, and ask themselves what it REALLY is they want. If they want status and big houses, then they better be extraordinary smart & disciplined and/or rich. Me, I just want an office where I can do my thing, not being responsible to anyone else but myself. A solution to this dystopian future would be the basic income as proposed in Switzerland. This is the only way in my opinion to make sure that a master/slave relationship will not exist, and people are really paid what the job is worth, unpressured by the need to survive.

meddlepal 13y ago
But how do you handle inflation in a base income economy? It seems that any extra freely allocated capital would immediately be nullified by the increase to inflation it would cause?
- legutierr 13y ago
  Why do you think inflation would go up? I have never understood this argument. It seems to me as likely for the price of consumer goods to go down as for them to go up in such a scenario. Or you may see no movement at all.
- ominous_prime 13y ago
  Basic income does not increase the money supply, which would bring about inflation. There may be an increase in the general cost of living for many, but that's not inflation, and it wouldn't absorb the entirety of one's basic income.
  - userulluipeste 13y ago
    It seems that "inflation" has an equivocal meaning here. I presume he meant that the purchasing power of the currency would diminish and it's not hard to imagine why. Look at housing - if the credit wouldn't be cheap (or if it wouldn't be available on a large scale), the houses have to have a price between the basic price (the combined cost of land plus house construction) and the price that the market can bear. Given the credit, the housing becomes able to bear a lot more. The housing credit affects just housing, but a basic income would affect pretty much everything an average Joe would require. A basic income would rise both the basic prices for every human-involved activity (the payed work becomes more expensive) and the bar of what a vast pool of potential clients could bear/afford.
    - meddlepal 13y ago
      Correct. This is what I meant.
- auggierose 13y ago
  There are probably a host of questions like that, and I am not an economist, so I cannot answer them (I am not sure economists can, though). What is important is to have the will to do something like that. Only then will it become apparent if we can actually do it. I think this is very similar to writing software. You know roughly what you want it to achieve, but you don't know yet exactly how.
- vasilipupkin 13y ago
  the idea is to replace current system of welfare transfers with basic income for an equivalent amount of money, not simply to print more money and give it away
rbanffy 13y ago
I believe a basic income would be a great idea, but it would have to be, in part, subsidized by increased taxes on the working population. Another approach would be the 1:12 rule that Switzerland didn't adopt.[1] 1: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25076879 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25076879
riggins 13y ago
A solution to this dystopian future would be the basic income I'm fascinated to see how philanthropic society will choose to be. Here's why. With the advent of robots I believe that something fundamental has changed. Elites, if they so choose, will not need to accommodate lower classes. Previously, there had to be some sharing because elites still had to rely on other humans for policing and military. However, it seems like robots might cut that connection. What will happen when elites feel like they don't need a large part of the population? Will they be altruistic? I don't know. Personally I'm pretty cynical and think we're heading for a future that's both more egalitarian and dystopian. The internet will give people a similar opportunity to succeed but those who do succeed won't be charitable to those who don't.
- venomsnake 13y ago
  Think of the other side ... all the hacker movies that we watched - they could become a reality. When you launch your startup why not just try to use zero day exploit to mess with the brakes of Zuckeberg's tesla (that is PS4 on wheels) while he is near a cliff. Home made drones - with the advance of 3d printing why not? If 10 people could create a billion dollar company today just think what a rogue genius could do in 10 years if he is hell bent on eating the rich. Technology is an enabler. It also enables the nasty stuff. And the elites while more powerful than ever will also be more fragile and vulnerable. And if they unravel the social fabric that keeps them safe now ...
  - knowaveragejoe 13y ago
    That's all within the realm of possibility, sure. But keep in mind that the affluent could simply buy a drone(or what-have-you) with all sorts of bells, whistles, and 10 years of improvements to security. The amount of work necessary to DIY something that even begins to approach the capabilities of something built by a company that knows what they're doing would be extreme - I'd argue insurmountable in many cases - even with 10 years of improvements to manufacturing and the availability of components.
    - noonespecial 13y ago

meddlepal 13y ago

But how do you handle inflation in a base income economy? It seems that any extra freely allocated capital would immediately be nullified by the increase to inflation it would cause?

legutierr 13y ago
Why do you think inflation would go up? I have never understood this argument. It seems to me as likely for the price of consumer goods to go down as for them to go up in such a scenario. Or you may see no movement at all.
ominous_prime 13y ago
Basic income does not increase the money supply, which would bring about inflation. There may be an increase in the general cost of living for many, but that's not inflation, and it wouldn't absorb the entirety of one's basic income.
- userulluipeste 13y ago
  It seems that "inflation" has an equivocal meaning here. I presume he meant that the purchasing power of the currency would diminish and it's not hard to imagine why. Look at housing - if the credit wouldn't be cheap (or if it wouldn't be available on a large scale), the houses have to have a price between the basic price (the combined cost of land plus house construction) and the price that the market can bear. Given the credit, the housing becomes able to bear a lot more. The housing credit affects just housing, but a basic income would affect pretty much everything an average Joe would require. A basic income would rise both the basic prices for every human-involved activity (the payed work becomes more expensive) and the bar of what a vast pool of potential clients could bear/afford.
  - meddlepal 13y ago
    Correct. This is what I meant.
auggierose 13y ago
There are probably a host of questions like that, and I am not an economist, so I cannot answer them (I am not sure economists can, though). What is important is to have the will to do something like that. Only then will it become apparent if we can actually do it. I think this is very similar to writing software. You know roughly what you want it to achieve, but you don't know yet exactly how.
vasilipupkin 13y ago
the idea is to replace current system of welfare transfers with basic income for an equivalent amount of money, not simply to print more money and give it away

rbanffy 13y ago

I believe a basic income would be a great idea, but it would have to be, in part, subsidized by increased taxes on the working population. Another approach would be the 1:12 rule that Switzerland didn't adopt.[1] 1: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25076879 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25076879

riggins 13y ago

A solution to this dystopian future would be the basic income I'm fascinated to see how philanthropic society will choose to be. Here's why. With the advent of robots I believe that something fundamental has changed. Elites, if they so choose, will not need to accommodate lower classes. Previously, there had to be some sharing because elites still had to rely on other humans for policing and military. However, it seems like robots might cut that connection. What will happen when elites feel like they don't need a large part of the population? Will they be altruistic? I don't know. Personally I'm pretty cynical and think we're heading for a future that's both more egalitarian and dystopian. The internet will give people a similar opportunity to succeed but those who do succeed won't be charitable to those who don't.

venomsnake 13y ago
Think of the other side ... all the hacker movies that we watched - they could become a reality. When you launch your startup why not just try to use zero day exploit to mess with the brakes of Zuckeberg's tesla (that is PS4 on wheels) while he is near a cliff. Home made drones - with the advance of 3d printing why not? If 10 people could create a billion dollar company today just think what a rogue genius could do in 10 years if he is hell bent on eating the rich. Technology is an enabler. It also enables the nasty stuff. And the elites while more powerful than ever will also be more fragile and vulnerable. And if they unravel the social fabric that keeps them safe now ...
- knowaveragejoe 13y ago
  That's all within the realm of possibility, sure. But keep in mind that the affluent could simply buy a drone(or what-have-you) with all sorts of bells, whistles, and 10 years of improvements to security. The amount of work necessary to DIY something that even begins to approach the capabilities of something built by a company that knows what they're doing would be extreme - I'd argue insurmountable in many cases - even with 10 years of improvements to manufacturing and the availability of components.
  - noonespecial 13y ago