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This is a great book on the subject: http://www.amazon.com/Quiet-Power-Introverts-World-Talking/dp/0307352153 http://www.amazon.com/Quiet-Power-Introverts-World

This is a great book on the subject: http://www.amazon.com/Quiet-Power-Introverts-World-Talking/dp/0307352153 http://www.amazon.com/Quiet-Power-Introverts-World-Talking/d... Introversion and extroversion have nothing to do with shyness or how outgoing you are. It has to do with where you derive energy and I disagree with the author of the linked article that introverts just need to practice social interaction. As the book points out, introversion and extroversion can be determined very early in life, she mentions a study where infants who were more reactive to stimulus turned out to be introverts and infants who were chill turned out to be extroverts: ------- “The four-month-olds who thrashed their arms like punk rockers did so not because they were extroverts in the making, but because their little bodies reacted strongly—they were “high-reactive”—to new sights, sounds, and smells,” Cain writes. “The quiet infants were silent not because they were future introverts—just the opposite—but because they had nervous systems that were unmoved by novelty.” These “high-reactive” babies grow up to be children who need a lot of time to decompress after school, need time alone to be creative and explore. They are introverts, not anti-social, Cain explains. There is a big difference. -------

gk1 13y ago
Someone who's born small and skinny can still become strong later on. I was "the quiet kid" until I consciously worked to improve my social skills. Now when I tell people I was "the quiet kid" they laugh until they realize I'm serious.
- colanderman 13y ago
  Quiet != introverted. For example, I'm an introvert (need alone time) but I'm not quiet (I was the class clown).
  - rodw 13y ago
    Spot on. Also, introverted != shy. I've known plenty of introverts who are very capable of working a room if they need to, they just prefer not to.
- minikites 13y ago
  That's true, I didn't mean to imply practicing was worthless. But if you're born small and skinny and grow up to be 5'5" you're probably not going to be an NFL linebacker. That doesn't mean you shouldn't still exercise, just that you might not be suited for some things.
- skunkworks 13y ago
  I think this is generally true, but only up to a point. Someone who is weak can become stronger, but our maximal fitness levels are largely genetic. This is, of course, not a useful thing to point out to someone who is weak (or an introvert). I am a firm believer in two things: Carol Dweck's idea of the "growth mindset", and that our energy is best spent on things we can control and not on things we cannot. Introverts can train themselves to have social interactions drain them less. They may never be loquacious, but good enough is good enough.
  - logfromblammo 13y ago
    I don't find any value in training myself to fake the sorts of social interactions other people enjoy. Some people like to talk about football games. I find that to be tedious and useless. I am perfectly willing to participate in non-football discussion, but since that seems to be the lowest conversational denominator around here, I don't often find myself speaking about any subject in gatherings larger than a certain size. At a certain level, it feels like there is a social bloc with a plurality, who pressures all other groups to conform for its convenience. I don't feel the need to do that. Expecting me to act like them makes about as much sense as me expecting them to learn to juggle on a unicycle, or fly model aircraft, or play a particular game, or read books by a certain author, or practice hobby gunsmithing, or perform amateur stand-up comedy. Why? Why would anyone expect an "introvert" to pretend to be more like "extroverts"? What they should be doing is socializing in a non-painful way with people who share their interests.
- dwc 13y ago
  I'm an introvert, and I also learned to be more outgoing. I love talking with people, going out, etc., but then I need lots of "alone time" between those kinds of activities. I'm still an introvert.
  - mithras 13y ago
    Same for me. I enjoy social activities and have learned good social skills, but I still need my recharge time alone.
- asdasf 13y ago
  That has nothing to do with the subject though. Being shy and being an introvert are not the same thing. I am not shy, I am not "the quiet guy". I am an introvert. There is nothing to fix or improve.
dfraser992 13y ago
I remember reading about a study that determined there was a biological difference in terms of how "introverts" and "extroverts" (using your definitions) processed information. The nervous system of the introverts processed information along a slower pathway, and through a different route, but more thoroughly. If I can manage to track down that URL, I will update my comment. "Introverted" and "extroverted" refer to the external behavioral differences that one can use to categorize people. "Introvert" and "extrovert" are different terms and more refer to people's mental focus, or Jung's explanation of where they get their mental energy. But you can't conflate the two. The most talkative person I've known classified himself as a introvert. I, on the other hand, can be extroverted, but I don't particularly like people nor do I get so much out of interacting with them that I feel compelled to be extroverted. In other words, "introverted extroverts" are the shy people - "introverted introverts" don't really give a damn. But the OP's article is certainly useful; I'd say he just needs to be more precise about the terms he uses and how it's primarily about the behavioral aspects of interacting with people. The idea that it is "draining" to use underdeveloped skills made sense to me.
makmanalp 13y ago
I don't know who came up with the "where they derive energy" explanation, but I see it mentioned as the correct answer all over the place, and I can't relate to this at all. I derive my energy from food and sleep ... Jokes aside, I have no clue what people are talking about when they say this. I don't feel energized by talking to people, and I don't feel energized by doing alone-time activities. I don't even see what energy has anything to do with having or not having interaction. I also don't think "deriving energy" is anywhere near being a measurable scientific event but rather an ill-defined handwavy concept.
- hga 13y ago
  Let me give you a significant and relevant to HN personal example. In the early '90s I worked for a small company where the VP of sales, who was our "closer" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closing_(sales) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closing_(sales) and I would together make critical sales calls. I'd be wearing my normal casual clothes, Oxford shirt, black jeans, New Balance 99x running shoes (grey back then, but always understated), in part for verisimilitude, and would answer all the technical questions, perhaps make a presentation of the system we were proposing to build for them. Basically convince them that we had the technical chops to get the job done, and this approach was quite successful. I might be mistaken for the non-energy model of an extrovert during one of these sessions, obviously being e.g. shy or retiring wouldn't work, nor is that in my nature. The difference I perceived between my extroverted salesmen partners and myself was that I wasn't good for much of anything the next day, as I "recharged my batteries" or whatever you want to call it; call it an "ill-defined handwavy concept" not particularly "a measurable scientific event", but I know my productivity, how it works and doesn't, going back to long before I became a programmer. So I firmly believe this phenomena exists, even if you yourself are in-between both of these "types".
- Guvante 13y ago
  It is incredibly important when looking at these kinds of measures to realize it is not a simple yes/no. Introvert/Extrovert. It is a range of possibilities. For instance many people are very near the center, and find both kinds of activities equally enjoyable. They don't get particularly "recharged" in that vague sense, but they never get discharged by the opposite either.
Dewie 13y ago
> > They are introverts, not anti-social, Cain explains. There is a big difference. And might as well mention that asocial is a more fitting word than anti-social if the intent is to describe lack of willingness to participate in social environments. "Anti-social" is better if one is describing behaviour that is socially destructive, like violence. <insert "but languages evolve" reply here>

gk1 13y ago

Someone who's born small and skinny can still become strong later on. I was "the quiet kid" until I consciously worked to improve my social skills. Now when I tell people I was "the quiet kid" they laugh until they realize I'm serious.

colanderman 13y ago
Quiet != introverted. For example, I'm an introvert (need alone time) but I'm not quiet (I was the class clown).
- rodw 13y ago
  Spot on. Also, introverted != shy. I've known plenty of introverts who are very capable of working a room if they need to, they just prefer not to.
minikites 13y ago
That's true, I didn't mean to imply practicing was worthless. But if you're born small and skinny and grow up to be 5'5" you're probably not going to be an NFL linebacker. That doesn't mean you shouldn't still exercise, just that you might not be suited for some things.
skunkworks 13y ago
I think this is generally true, but only up to a point. Someone who is weak can become stronger, but our maximal fitness levels are largely genetic. This is, of course, not a useful thing to point out to someone who is weak (or an introvert). I am a firm believer in two things: Carol Dweck's idea of the "growth mindset", and that our energy is best spent on things we can control and not on things we cannot. Introverts can train themselves to have social interactions drain them less. They may never be loquacious, but good enough is good enough.
- logfromblammo 13y ago
  I don't find any value in training myself to fake the sorts of social interactions other people enjoy. Some people like to talk about football games. I find that to be tedious and useless. I am perfectly willing to participate in non-football discussion, but since that seems to be the lowest conversational denominator around here, I don't often find myself speaking about any subject in gatherings larger than a certain size. At a certain level, it feels like there is a social bloc with a plurality, who pressures all other groups to conform for its convenience. I don't feel the need to do that. Expecting me to act like them makes about as much sense as me expecting them to learn to juggle on a unicycle, or fly model aircraft, or play a particular game, or read books by a certain author, or practice hobby gunsmithing, or perform amateur stand-up comedy. Why? Why would anyone expect an "introvert" to pretend to be more like "extroverts"? What they should be doing is socializing in a non-painful way with people who share their interests.
dwc 13y ago
I'm an introvert, and I also learned to be more outgoing. I love talking with people, going out, etc., but then I need lots of "alone time" between those kinds of activities. I'm still an introvert.
- mithras 13y ago
  Same for me. I enjoy social activities and have learned good social skills, but I still need my recharge time alone.
asdasf 13y ago
That has nothing to do with the subject though. Being shy and being an introvert are not the same thing. I am not shy, I am not "the quiet guy". I am an introvert. There is nothing to fix or improve.

dfraser992 13y ago

I remember reading about a study that determined there was a biological difference in terms of how "introverts" and "extroverts" (using your definitions) processed information. The nervous system of the introverts processed information along a slower pathway, and through a different route, but more thoroughly. If I can manage to track down that URL, I will update my comment. "Introverted" and "extroverted" refer to the external behavioral differences that one can use to categorize people. "Introvert" and "extrovert" are different terms and more refer to people's mental focus, or Jung's explanation of where they get their mental energy. But you can't conflate the two. The most talkative person I've known classified himself as a introvert. I, on the other hand, can be extroverted, but I don't particularly like people nor do I get so much out of interacting with them that I feel compelled to be extroverted. In other words, "introverted extroverts" are the shy people - "introverted introverts" don't really give a damn. But the OP's article is certainly useful; I'd say he just needs to be more precise about the terms he uses and how it's primarily about the behavioral aspects of interacting with people. The idea that it is "draining" to use underdeveloped skills made sense to me.

makmanalp 13y ago

I don't know who came up with the "where they derive energy" explanation, but I see it mentioned as the correct answer all over the place, and I can't relate to this at all. I derive my energy from food and sleep ... Jokes aside, I have no clue what people are talking about when they say this. I don't feel energized by talking to people, and I don't feel energized by doing alone-time activities. I don't even see what energy has anything to do with having or not having interaction. I also don't think "deriving energy" is anywhere near being a measurable scientific event but rather an ill-defined handwavy concept.

hga 13y ago
Let me give you a significant and relevant to HN personal example. In the early '90s I worked for a small company where the VP of sales, who was our "closer" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closing_(sales) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closing_(sales) and I would together make critical sales calls. I'd be wearing my normal casual clothes, Oxford shirt, black jeans, New Balance 99x running shoes (grey back then, but always understated), in part for verisimilitude, and would answer all the technical questions, perhaps make a presentation of the system we were proposing to build for them. Basically convince them that we had the technical chops to get the job done, and this approach was quite successful. I might be mistaken for the non-energy model of an extrovert during one of these sessions, obviously being e.g. shy or retiring wouldn't work, nor is that in my nature. The difference I perceived between my extroverted salesmen partners and myself was that I wasn't good for much of anything the next day, as I "recharged my batteries" or whatever you want to call it; call it an "ill-defined handwavy concept" not particularly "a measurable scientific event", but I know my productivity, how it works and doesn't, going back to long before I became a programmer. So I firmly believe this phenomena exists, even if you yourself are in-between both of these "types".
Guvante 13y ago
It is incredibly important when looking at these kinds of measures to realize it is not a simple yes/no. Introvert/Extrovert. It is a range of possibilities. For instance many people are very near the center, and find both kinds of activities equally enjoyable. They don't get particularly "recharged" in that vague sense, but they never get discharged by the opposite either.

Dewie 13y ago

> > They are introverts, not anti-social, Cain explains. There is a big difference. And might as well mention that asocial is a more fitting word than anti-social if the intent is to describe lack of willingness to participate in social environments. "Anti-social" is better if one is describing behaviour that is socially destructive, like violence. <insert "but languages evolve" reply here>