4 ms·

I disagree and the article is based on a category error. The words introvert and extrovert are defined to be classifications of people not particular traits exh

by iand 13y ago

I disagree and the article is based on a category error. The words introvert and extrovert are defined to be classifications of people not particular traits exhibited by those people. extrovert: an outgoing, socially confident person introvert: a shy, reticent person They are defined in terms of particular traits: shyness: the quality or state of being shy confidence: the feeling or belief that one can have faith in or rely on someone or something. People can have differing degrees of each trait and differ in how they exhibit those in different social situations. However, by definition, if a person is predominantly shy and reticent in most social situations then we're justified in calling them an introvert.

jt2190 13y ago
> ... if a person is predominantly shy and reticent in > most social situations then we're justified in calling > them an introvert. Sure, just understand that you're using the colloquial definition of "introvert" (a synonym for "shy") and not the technical definition, as developed for the Meyers-Briggs Personality Type Indicator: "People who prefer extraversion draw energy from action: they tend to act, then reflect, then act further. If they are inactive, their motivation tends to decline. To rebuild their energy, extraverts need breaks from time spent in reflection. Conversely, those who prefer introversion "expend" energy through action: they prefer to reflect, then act, then reflect again. To rebuild their energy, introverts need quiet time alone, away from activity." [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Attitudes:_extraversion.2Fintroversion_.28E.2FI.29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Att...
- analog31 13y ago
  How does one identify a definition as technical?
  - geetee 13y ago
    Awesome, by pointing out that the parent comment possibly intended to say "actual" instead of "technical," you've debunked his entire argument. Congratulations, you win the game.
    - shawnz 13y ago
      How do you identify a definition as being "actual"? Why are the Myers-briggs authors the authority on introversion? Many people consider the MBTI to be bunk science, and the term "introvert" has been around for much longer than the MBTI. EDIT: Also, why does there have to be just one definition anyway?
      - geetee 13y ago
        Words have meaning. You're welcome to make new ones.
  - jt2190 13y ago
    Don't quote me, but I believe that the term "introvert" was coined by psychologists who were studying personality traits, and they had a very specific meaning in mind.
- iand 13y ago
  You have these backwards. The definition I gave of introvert is the accepted/technical/actual definition. Myers Briggs use the word introversion to capture a concept that is much wider than introvert. For example it makes claims and assertions about the mechanism of "drawing and rebuilding energy" which is clearly a metaphor, not an actually measurable quantity.
  - jt2190 13y ago
    Ok, I'm getting confused then... The article uses the Meyers-Briggs definitions. I'm struggling to find the definition you're using. For example I found this: "Introversion is not the same thing as shyness but it is often mistaken as such by extroverts, who may find it difficult to relate to introverted tendencies. Introverts prefer solitary activities over social ones, whereas shy people (who may be extroverts at heart) avoid social encounters out of fear." [1] Yet if I understand you correctly, there is another definition of introversion that equates introversion with shyness. Can you provide a link or expand your explanation? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraversion_and_introversion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraversion_and_introversion
dschiptsov 13y ago
Shyness is an effect, not a cause.) And it is an effect of many different causes. It could be inability to cope with other people due to some deficits, as in a mild form of autism know as Asperger syndrome, or it could be a result of a childhood traumas, or, which is usually the case, some genetic predisposition and environmental causes and social deficits and some kind of feedback loops leading to a repetitive behavior. Asperger's is a learned behavior, which could be unlearned and retrained by a set of CBTs, while severe forms of autism, which are caused by some neurological deficits in much greater extent that just environmental feedback, cannot be altered by mere CBT.
- iand 13y ago
  That's the first I've heard of Aspergers being a learned behaviour. Can you link somewhere that I can read more about that.
  - dschiptsov 13y ago
    I have nothing to link, but myself fighting with it my whole life.)
    - iand 13y ago
      Maybe you are fighting the wrong battle. Instead of trying to "unlearn" Aspergers, perhaps you should accept it and fight for understanding by others.
      - dschiptsov 13y ago
        It is a nice wording, but in reality people who have it without knowing they have it are really miserable and unhappy ones. Usually people have no idea, and actively reject any possibility that something is wrong with them, instead of with the world. Asperger's could be treated by CBTs, which any professional western psychologist (or eastern teacher) will tell you. Usually, you is the only one who could help you, especially in ignorant, third-world country.
    - 13y ago

by iand 13y ago

jt2190 13y ago

> ... if a person is predominantly shy and reticent in > most social situations then we're justified in calling > them an introvert. Sure, just understand that you're using the colloquial definition of "introvert" (a synonym for "shy") and not the technical definition, as developed for the Meyers-Briggs Personality Type Indicator: "People who prefer extraversion draw energy from action: they tend to act, then reflect, then act further. If they are inactive, their motivation tends to decline. To rebuild their energy, extraverts need breaks from time spent in reflection. Conversely, those who prefer introversion "expend" energy through action: they prefer to reflect, then act, then reflect again. To rebuild their energy, introverts need quiet time alone, away from activity." [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Attitudes:_extraversion.2Fintroversion_.28E.2FI.29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Att...

analog31 13y ago
How does one identify a definition as technical?
- geetee 13y ago
  Awesome, by pointing out that the parent comment possibly intended to say "actual" instead of "technical," you've debunked his entire argument. Congratulations, you win the game.
  - shawnz 13y ago
    How do you identify a definition as being "actual"? Why are the Myers-briggs authors the authority on introversion? Many people consider the MBTI to be bunk science, and the term "introvert" has been around for much longer than the MBTI. EDIT: Also, why does there have to be just one definition anyway?
    - geetee 13y ago
      Words have meaning. You're welcome to make new ones.
- jt2190 13y ago
  Don't quote me, but I believe that the term "introvert" was coined by psychologists who were studying personality traits, and they had a very specific meaning in mind.
iand 13y ago
You have these backwards. The definition I gave of introvert is the accepted/technical/actual definition. Myers Briggs use the word introversion to capture a concept that is much wider than introvert. For example it makes claims and assertions about the mechanism of "drawing and rebuilding energy" which is clearly a metaphor, not an actually measurable quantity.
- jt2190 13y ago
  Ok, I'm getting confused then... The article uses the Meyers-Briggs definitions. I'm struggling to find the definition you're using. For example I found this: "Introversion is not the same thing as shyness but it is often mistaken as such by extroverts, who may find it difficult to relate to introverted tendencies. Introverts prefer solitary activities over social ones, whereas shy people (who may be extroverts at heart) avoid social encounters out of fear." [1] Yet if I understand you correctly, there is another definition of introversion that equates introversion with shyness. Can you provide a link or expand your explanation? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraversion_and_introversion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraversion_and_introversion

dschiptsov 13y ago

Shyness is an effect, not a cause.) And it is an effect of many different causes. It could be inability to cope with other people due to some deficits, as in a mild form of autism know as Asperger syndrome, or it could be a result of a childhood traumas, or, which is usually the case, some genetic predisposition and environmental causes and social deficits and some kind of feedback loops leading to a repetitive behavior. Asperger's is a learned behavior, which could be unlearned and retrained by a set of CBTs, while severe forms of autism, which are caused by some neurological deficits in much greater extent that just environmental feedback, cannot be altered by mere CBT.

iand 13y ago
That's the first I've heard of Aspergers being a learned behaviour. Can you link somewhere that I can read more about that.
- dschiptsov 13y ago
  I have nothing to link, but myself fighting with it my whole life.)
  - iand 13y ago
    Maybe you are fighting the wrong battle. Instead of trying to "unlearn" Aspergers, perhaps you should accept it and fight for understanding by others.
    - dschiptsov 13y ago
      It is a nice wording, but in reality people who have it without knowing they have it are really miserable and unhappy ones. Usually people have no idea, and actively reject any possibility that something is wrong with them, instead of with the world. Asperger's could be treated by CBTs, which any professional western psychologist (or eastern teacher) will tell you. Usually, you is the only one who could help you, especially in ignorant, third-world country.
  - 13y ago