5 ms·

I am not reinventing "from scratch" every time. I rewrite a bit of light glue code to weave together various bits I copy-n-paste in from previous successful pro

by _getify 13y ago

I am not reinventing "from scratch" every time. I rewrite a bit of light glue code to weave together various bits I copy-n-paste in from previous successful projects. That's hardly "reinventing the wheel".

ricardobeat 13y ago
So the code you are copying-and-pasting from previous projects is your own framework or collection of components, you're just keeping it private. That's exactly how everyone else develops (but using open-source libraries): use a module system and glue together things from previous successful projects (made by other people). Why your own private framework is better than what is out there is a whole different matter.
- _getify 13y ago
  Did you read the post? I said basically that. The difference is, I don't hold my "framework" out as THE general reusable pattern that everyone else should use. It's also extremely disconnected (without the glue code) and really makes no hard assumptions or influences over how you use it. And, btw, it's not private. Most of my code is on github. I just don't try to force it down others' throats.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- Prefinem 13y ago
  Frameworks are different from a set of tools that allow you to accomplish a task. Picking up bits and pieces from old code isn't a framework. Its a specific tool. Think of Backbone or Ember or Angular as a mechanic shop. Things work a very certain way. The copy and paste code from other sites is a hammer, or wrench. You don't have to use them a certain way, but when you have them, you can use how they are intended.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
    - _getify 13y ago
      I use plenty of tools/libraries, some I've written (and OSS'd on github), some totally popular and widely used/tested. What I don't use, nor do I try to force on others, is the best ways to glue these pieces together. I have my ideas of "best practices", but those ideas are highly adjustable per site/app, and also just my own opinions. No piece I bring into a project makes an intrusive assumption about how the rest of my code will work. I love the assumptions that because I write any amount of glue code, the code I write must certainly be less tested and therefore less quality than that which shows up in a popular framework.
      - ricardobeat 13y ago
        I'm sorry, I accidentally deleted instead of editing, reposted above. That is a very reasonable assumption: code that is used by a dozen projects, with a few variations for each of them, is certainly less tested than code shared by a thousand different projects and developers using a standard API. It's not inherently flawed or bad, but a matter of numbers. Also have in mind that frameworks vary wildy. Angular and Ember might be absurdly prescriptive, you have to do things a certain way, while Backbone and others are extremely flexible, merely a collection of useful patterns and tools. --- Why do frameworks exist? They allow you to speed-up development, offer battle-hardened code, a consistent API, good documentation and proven design patterns, plus developers can make use of their previous experience with it. It's a matter of choice, and of course there are trade-offs, namely flexibility. It's not about being "the standard", just providing useful tools. I bet you end up using a lot of the same components over and over, right? Package them up and call it the 'Getify Framework' and you're in the same spot. I don't get why you feel that someone is 'forcing' you to do anything? You say that you write your own code because I already understood that (architecture) domain pretty well. I’ve done similar “single-page apps” dozens of times. I’m getting a little better each time I do it. I learn new lessons about easier ways to mix the pieces together with each project. Well, guess what? That's how Backbone, Angular, and all other frameworks came to be. From other developers that decided to share their solutions, and people adopted them because they liked it and it solved some of their problems, not because they were forced to (?).
blat001 13y ago
I've heard of this before as "Not invented here" syndrome. Frameworks are powerful as they give all developers a common language and methodology for doing repeatable tasks, meaning that when I need to fix a bug in your code, I know how it is architected and where the code should be because you have used a framework I understand. Not to mention that these frameworks undergo alot more extensive testing than an average developers code will ever go through. By using a framework you benefit from not having to go through the pain of dealing with all the different browser models and quirks that every version introduces or takes away. For really advanced or incredibly high performance tasks you might be correct but to me that is the 1% of tasks, for everything else a framework should give you all the scaffolding you need allowing you to instead focus on tasks that add real value into the product/service you are working on.
- _getify 13y ago
  If I really had NIH syndrome, I wouldn't use any tools/libraries. On the contrary, I use them quite frequently. And I build lots of my own tools/libraries on github. What I don't do is make intrusive assumptions about the entirety of your application's architecture simply because you include my one little focused tool.
- SkyMarshal 13y ago
  >Not to mention that these frameworks undergo alot more extensive testing than an average developers code will ever go through. By using a framework you benefit from not having to go through the pain of dealing with all the different browser models and quirks that every version introduces or takes away. This is particularly what I value in open source frameworks - the hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands, maybe even million of man-hours that have gone into debugging edge cases, cross-browserifying, and finding security holes, stuff I would never be able to replicate on my own in any reasonable time frame. Especially the latter, given the security situation on the internet these days. My SOP is, stand on the shoulders of giants, unless there's a particular requirement that precludes doing so. Such requirements are rare, most client work actively benefits from use of a framework.
digitalpacman 13y ago
This is often illegal because the code you write at most companies is their property, not yours. And if they sued you you'd be in a lot of trouble :/

by _getify 13y ago

ricardobeat 13y ago

So the code you are copying-and-pasting from previous projects is your own framework or collection of components, you're just keeping it private. That's exactly how everyone else develops (but using open-source libraries): use a module system and glue together things from previous successful projects (made by other people). Why your own private framework is better than what is out there is a whole different matter.

_getify 13y ago
Did you read the post? I said basically that. The difference is, I don't hold my "framework" out as THE general reusable pattern that everyone else should use. It's also extremely disconnected (without the glue code) and really makes no hard assumptions or influences over how you use it. And, btw, it's not private. Most of my code is on github. I just don't try to force it down others' throats.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
Prefinem 13y ago
Frameworks are different from a set of tools that allow you to accomplish a task. Picking up bits and pieces from old code isn't a framework. Its a specific tool. Think of Backbone or Ember or Angular as a mechanic shop. Things work a very certain way. The copy and paste code from other sites is a hammer, or wrench. You don't have to use them a certain way, but when you have them, you can use how they are intended.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
  - _getify 13y ago
    I use plenty of tools/libraries, some I've written (and OSS'd on github), some totally popular and widely used/tested. What I don't use, nor do I try to force on others, is the best ways to glue these pieces together. I have my ideas of "best practices", but those ideas are highly adjustable per site/app, and also just my own opinions. No piece I bring into a project makes an intrusive assumption about how the rest of my code will work. I love the assumptions that because I write any amount of glue code, the code I write must certainly be less tested and therefore less quality than that which shows up in a popular framework.
    - ricardobeat 13y ago
      I'm sorry, I accidentally deleted instead of editing, reposted above. That is a very reasonable assumption: code that is used by a dozen projects, with a few variations for each of them, is certainly less tested than code shared by a thousand different projects and developers using a standard API. It's not inherently flawed or bad, but a matter of numbers. Also have in mind that frameworks vary wildy. Angular and Ember might be absurdly prescriptive, you have to do things a certain way, while Backbone and others are extremely flexible, merely a collection of useful patterns and tools. --- Why do frameworks exist? They allow you to speed-up development, offer battle-hardened code, a consistent API, good documentation and proven design patterns, plus developers can make use of their previous experience with it. It's a matter of choice, and of course there are trade-offs, namely flexibility. It's not about being "the standard", just providing useful tools. I bet you end up using a lot of the same components over and over, right? Package them up and call it the 'Getify Framework' and you're in the same spot. I don't get why you feel that someone is 'forcing' you to do anything? You say that you write your own code because I already understood that (architecture) domain pretty well. I’ve done similar “single-page apps” dozens of times. I’m getting a little better each time I do it. I learn new lessons about easier ways to mix the pieces together with each project. Well, guess what? That's how Backbone, Angular, and all other frameworks came to be. From other developers that decided to share their solutions, and people adopted them because they liked it and it solved some of their problems, not because they were forced to (?).

blat001 13y ago

I've heard of this before as "Not invented here" syndrome. Frameworks are powerful as they give all developers a common language and methodology for doing repeatable tasks, meaning that when I need to fix a bug in your code, I know how it is architected and where the code should be because you have used a framework I understand. Not to mention that these frameworks undergo alot more extensive testing than an average developers code will ever go through. By using a framework you benefit from not having to go through the pain of dealing with all the different browser models and quirks that every version introduces or takes away. For really advanced or incredibly high performance tasks you might be correct but to me that is the 1% of tasks, for everything else a framework should give you all the scaffolding you need allowing you to instead focus on tasks that add real value into the product/service you are working on.

_getify 13y ago
If I really had NIH syndrome, I wouldn't use any tools/libraries. On the contrary, I use them quite frequently. And I build lots of my own tools/libraries on github. What I don't do is make intrusive assumptions about the entirety of your application's architecture simply because you include my one little focused tool.
SkyMarshal 13y ago
>Not to mention that these frameworks undergo alot more extensive testing than an average developers code will ever go through. By using a framework you benefit from not having to go through the pain of dealing with all the different browser models and quirks that every version introduces or takes away. This is particularly what I value in open source frameworks - the hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands, maybe even million of man-hours that have gone into debugging edge cases, cross-browserifying, and finding security holes, stuff I would never be able to replicate on my own in any reasonable time frame. Especially the latter, given the security situation on the internet these days. My SOP is, stand on the shoulders of giants, unless there's a particular requirement that precludes doing so. Such requirements are rare, most client work actively benefits from use of a framework.

digitalpacman 13y ago

This is often illegal because the code you write at most companies is their property, not yours. And if they sued you you'd be in a lot of trouble :/