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I think you are leaving out a few details about the history of currency in China, like the fact that the metal coins were minted by the government, and that at

I think you are leaving out a few details about the history of currency in China, like the fact that the metal coins were minted by the government, and that at different times there were different governments minting coins (from different kinds of metals). You are also ignoring the fact that the metal coins from China were also being used as currency in neighboring countries, and so even when the Chinese government stopped minting (or banned) older currencies it took time for those currencies to fall out of circulation. To put it another way, Chinese farmers did not decide to use copper on their own; copper was chosen by a government in certain rural regions. "I'm not clear on what you think the difference is between using silver by weight and using silver by face value" The face value of a coin does not need to track the market value of the metal used to make the coin. Typically it is advantageous for the face value to be higher than the value of the metal (otherwise people will just melt down the metal); it could happen the other way, e.g. what happened with US pennies. "Face value" only makes sense with fiat currency, which is why I drew the distinction. "The whole idea of a mint is that coins have a standard weight" This is not true of modern coins; all the really matters with modern coins is their face value, which can have nothing to do with their weight. It is not uncommon for a smaller coin to have a larger face value than a larger coin. Relating the physical measurements of a coin with its face value is convenient but not at all necessary in a fiat currency. The US has dollar coins with different weights and dimensions, all with a face value of one dollar, and the value of those coins is independent of the market value of the metals they are made from.

thaumasiotes 13y ago
> at different times there were different governments minting coins (from different kinds of metals). Copper, bronze, and iron (depending on location). But not silver, even when taxes were required to be paid in silver. You've taken the position that the medium of tax payment will necessarily be used as a currency, but this isn't true. What distinguishes the farmers, with their tax obligations in silver and their business in minted copper (or iron), from the merchants with their tax obligations in silver and their business in unminted silver? It can't be the tax obligations. I've taken the position that the distinction is in the amount of value they generally handled; silver was worth more than copper and used for large transactions. > "Face value" only makes sense with fiat currency, which is why I drew the distinction. This is actually untrue; clipping a minted coin creates a discrepancy between its face value (which it has, since it's minted) and its value by weight. Forging an adulterated coin does the same. Clipping only makes sense for "non-fiat" coins; it would be pointless to clip a fiat coin as they are not made from precious metals. The value of a traditional, minted coin of precious metal was entirely in the weight; the minting was a QA program. Anyway, I don't think a fiat currency can be said to "use silver" in any sense, which is why I was confused at your distinction between using silver by weight or face value. The GBP is named the "pound sterling", but that's just a name. I guess in my mind, if we use $10 of platinum to mint commemorative not-intended-for-use $500 coins, the use of platinum is more of a coincidence than an actual use of metal-based currency.

thaumasiotes 13y ago

> at different times there were different governments minting coins (from different kinds of metals). Copper, bronze, and iron (depending on location). But not silver, even when taxes were required to be paid in silver. You've taken the position that the medium of tax payment will necessarily be used as a currency, but this isn't true. What distinguishes the farmers, with their tax obligations in silver and their business in minted copper (or iron), from the merchants with their tax obligations in silver and their business in unminted silver? It can't be the tax obligations. I've taken the position that the distinction is in the amount of value they generally handled; silver was worth more than copper and used for large transactions. > "Face value" only makes sense with fiat currency, which is why I drew the distinction. This is actually untrue; clipping a minted coin creates a discrepancy between its face value (which it has, since it's minted) and its value by weight. Forging an adulterated coin does the same. Clipping only makes sense for "non-fiat" coins; it would be pointless to clip a fiat coin as they are not made from precious metals. The value of a traditional, minted coin of precious metal was entirely in the weight; the minting was a QA program. Anyway, I don't think a fiat currency can be said to "use silver" in any sense, which is why I was confused at your distinction between using silver by weight or face value. The GBP is named the "pound sterling", but that's just a name. I guess in my mind, if we use $10 of platinum to mint commemorative not-intended-for-use $500 coins, the use of platinum is more of a coincidence than an actual use of metal-based currency.