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Serious question: do you (or anyone else) think it's immoral to go to church as an atheist just to meet people? I get along really well with church people, but

by sejje 13y ago

Serious question: do you (or anyone else) think it's immoral to go to church as an atheist just to meet people? I get along really well with church people, but I simultaneously hate talking about religion.

AlexMax 13y ago
Have you considered going to a Universalist Unitarian church?
sliverstorm 13y ago
Nah, I don't think it's immoral. I figure it's kind of like advertising; it's not dishonest of me to view an ad without intent to buy. The advertiser knows I probably won't, but I might- so they are satisfied simply having my eyeballs. Similarly, the church wants your ear. Give them your ear. If you aren't converted, that's fine, they had their chance, they had your ear, both parties get what they want. And, maybe, in that spirit of exchange, throw a few dollars in the collection bowl. You enjoyed their HVAC for a few hours, and maybe even ate a little of their food.
Jtsummers 13y ago
If you don't want to go to church, many church communities have activities outside the services proper and often away from the church that you can become involved in. Those might be easier to participate in. For instance, in the area I'm in, the local Roman Catholic community has a young adult group. They do the bible study things, but also pure social activities and service activities. Joining that group led to joining a soccer team which greatly expanded my social circle in the area outside of coworkers (all much older than me at that job, 20+ years) and a small group of RPG buddies. Who I mostly didn't interact with outside the Saturday game, again mostly the age difference. Two were 5-10 years younger, the rest were 10-20 years older.
Danieru 13y ago
Most churches would (or should) welcome a non-believer! Going to church in your situation would not be sneaky or deceitful. Even if you are very very very sure that the service is not going to make you into a Christian, that does not matter since the church will be pretty sure of the opposite. Plus you're not taking anything away from anyone, there is no reason to feel guilty. As shorthand advice: try to find a mission church in your area. A mission church expects newcomers from the area and should be welcoming. If on the off chance the church you attend feels unwelcoming for any reason you should try a different church. All churches are run by sinful humans and sometimes that works out better than others, sometimes not.
- gcr 13y ago
  One thought is to get involved with outgoing church ministries (eg. soup kitchen visits, trash pickups, etc.) For example, my church has a program where during the summer, we visit impoverished area in our city, gather around in an apartment square (with permission of the apartment owners of course), and teach kids how to read by just reading books with them, playing games, etc. If you're uncomfortable with ministry, you can probably find a community service project without a "hidden agenda." For example, the goal of the above project wasn't to turn the kids into "little christians;" rather the goal was just to keep their literacy skills up during the summer while school isn't in session. As an athiest, by working with a project like that, you'd be able to help do good in the community while still feeling a sense of fellowship with the others. I'm sure the other churchgoers would appreciate the help for the event even though you don't intend on "converting" or whatever.
hnriot 13y ago
of course it's not immoral, but it may be dumb. There are "church people" everywhere, you don't need to go and listen to people doing something you hate to meet them. However, my recommendation would be forget this idea of "church people" you have, it sounds unhealthy to me. Less labels.
- sejje 13y ago
  I didn't really mean that religion itself or its discussion is distasteful, rather enunciating and defending my own views can be. I'm not outspoken on the topic, so primarily these discussions have happened with my family, who seem disappointed. I just find that I enjoy my time with Christians, particularly a Christian organization (which does amazing work and treats me better than maybe anyone ever has) for whom I maintain a website, and a pickup-basketball group that was held in a church each week. I'm not trying to support any "labels," rather it's just a personal observation.
yetanotherphd 13y ago
I don't know if it's immoral, but I find the idea highly distasteful. But it probably depends on your view on religion. Some atheists consider religion to be vague platitudes and fairy tales, and so for them going to church is a meaningless act. I consider Christianity at least to be a very compelling and plausible worldview (although still false), and so for me going to church would feel very wrong. In fact I go out of my way to avoid participating in any religious acts, although I'm happy to visit a church that accepts tourists as tourists.
ScottBurson 13y ago
Try the Unitarians, perhaps. They are very non-dogmatic. I don't think they would reject an atheist at all -- in fact a few of them might privately admit to agreeing with you.
- spacehome 13y ago
  I can confirm. I was raised in a Unitarian Universalist church, and there were a sizable minority (best guess is 10-20%) of adults who were mostly atheistic but wanted a deeper moral, spiritual, and ecological rooting than mainstream atheism provides.
Amadou 13y ago
Serious question: do you (or anyone else) think it's immoral to go to church as an atheist just to meet people? My opinion, as an atheist who finds personal religiosity quite boring, but finds the cultural phenomena of religion rather interesting, is that most people who attend church do so for socialization rather than faith. Most people (not all) don't really know much about their own religion, they just participate in the rituals because that's what they've always done and they've had no reason to really question it. There are quite a lot of people who give lip service to their religion but live effectively secular lives. Challenge them on it and they will likely become defensive, but actions speak louder than words. So, I think you'll find plenty of people at church who are looking for socialization and aren't particularly interested in dogma. I'd stay away from the more extremist sects (people that do snake-handling and speaking in tongues are there for more than just something to do on the weekend). FWIW, in college, my muslim friends were always having parties that had their mosque membership as a central connection (not "college parties" but more than just dinners) I never got preached at, but some discussions were over my head ... plus they also had the best food. My connection was a girlfriend who was an immigrant and essentially a secular muslim.
- mtdewcmu 13y ago
  My opinion, as an atheist who finds personal religiosity quite boring... is that most people who attend church do so for socialization rather than faith. Most people (not all) don't really know much about their own religion, they just participate in the rituals because that's what they've always done and they've had no reason to really question it. I've observed that, but I've never understood it. I was raised to go to church on Sundays, but I found it about as enjoyable as going to prison. As a child, adults would tell me that someday I would start to like going to church, but it never happened. I seem to lack whatever gene makes people begin to like things and continue doing them just out of habit. As an irony, I was a good student in CCD (Catholic education) and I probably possess more knowledge about Catholicism and Christianity than those habitual church-goers. I like to know things, but I can't stand the tedious rituals. It just shows that knowledge of religion and actually practicing it are not related or perhaps negatively correlated.
mtdewcmu 13y ago
One of the benefits of being an atheist IMO is not having to worry about unwittingly committing trivial sins. No one is keeping score.
clarebear 13y ago
Try Unitarian Universalism. They accept atheists, Wicca, Christians, etc. and do not try to convert theist beliefs. They are much more about living softly and helping others.
steve19 13y ago
As it happens, aside from a church, I also attend a place of worship for another religion which I do not belong to, nor have/will I ever. But I attend as often as I can for cultural and social reasons, including participating in religious festivals. Never had a problem. I have never pretended to be something I am not. It is not immoral at all. If someone asks, just say you are not a Christian and you are just checking the place out. Don't lie or pretend to be otherwise. None of the Churches I have been to would care if you are not a Christian, but if they do care, go to another church. Churches vary a lot in beliefs and culture. I would not try engage in religious debate to prove their God does not exist ... no religious folks like to hear that (and some may be very offended if done inside a church). If you are young and near a college, go to a college-orientated church (just about any church close to a large campus).

by sejje 13y ago

AlexMax 13y ago

Have you considered going to a Universalist Unitarian church?

sliverstorm 13y ago

Nah, I don't think it's immoral. I figure it's kind of like advertising; it's not dishonest of me to view an ad without intent to buy. The advertiser knows I probably won't, but I might- so they are satisfied simply having my eyeballs. Similarly, the church wants your ear. Give them your ear. If you aren't converted, that's fine, they had their chance, they had your ear, both parties get what they want. And, maybe, in that spirit of exchange, throw a few dollars in the collection bowl. You enjoyed their HVAC for a few hours, and maybe even ate a little of their food.

Jtsummers 13y ago

If you don't want to go to church, many church communities have activities outside the services proper and often away from the church that you can become involved in. Those might be easier to participate in. For instance, in the area I'm in, the local Roman Catholic community has a young adult group. They do the bible study things, but also pure social activities and service activities. Joining that group led to joining a soccer team which greatly expanded my social circle in the area outside of coworkers (all much older than me at that job, 20+ years) and a small group of RPG buddies. Who I mostly didn't interact with outside the Saturday game, again mostly the age difference. Two were 5-10 years younger, the rest were 10-20 years older.

Danieru 13y ago

Most churches would (or should) welcome a non-believer! Going to church in your situation would not be sneaky or deceitful. Even if you are very very very sure that the service is not going to make you into a Christian, that does not matter since the church will be pretty sure of the opposite. Plus you're not taking anything away from anyone, there is no reason to feel guilty. As shorthand advice: try to find a mission church in your area. A mission church expects newcomers from the area and should be welcoming. If on the off chance the church you attend feels unwelcoming for any reason you should try a different church. All churches are run by sinful humans and sometimes that works out better than others, sometimes not.

gcr 13y ago
One thought is to get involved with outgoing church ministries (eg. soup kitchen visits, trash pickups, etc.) For example, my church has a program where during the summer, we visit impoverished area in our city, gather around in an apartment square (with permission of the apartment owners of course), and teach kids how to read by just reading books with them, playing games, etc. If you're uncomfortable with ministry, you can probably find a community service project without a "hidden agenda." For example, the goal of the above project wasn't to turn the kids into "little christians;" rather the goal was just to keep their literacy skills up during the summer while school isn't in session. As an athiest, by working with a project like that, you'd be able to help do good in the community while still feeling a sense of fellowship with the others. I'm sure the other churchgoers would appreciate the help for the event even though you don't intend on "converting" or whatever.

hnriot 13y ago

of course it's not immoral, but it may be dumb. There are "church people" everywhere, you don't need to go and listen to people doing something you hate to meet them. However, my recommendation would be forget this idea of "church people" you have, it sounds unhealthy to me. Less labels.

sejje 13y ago
I didn't really mean that religion itself or its discussion is distasteful, rather enunciating and defending my own views can be. I'm not outspoken on the topic, so primarily these discussions have happened with my family, who seem disappointed. I just find that I enjoy my time with Christians, particularly a Christian organization (which does amazing work and treats me better than maybe anyone ever has) for whom I maintain a website, and a pickup-basketball group that was held in a church each week. I'm not trying to support any "labels," rather it's just a personal observation.

yetanotherphd 13y ago

I don't know if it's immoral, but I find the idea highly distasteful. But it probably depends on your view on religion. Some atheists consider religion to be vague platitudes and fairy tales, and so for them going to church is a meaningless act. I consider Christianity at least to be a very compelling and plausible worldview (although still false), and so for me going to church would feel very wrong. In fact I go out of my way to avoid participating in any religious acts, although I'm happy to visit a church that accepts tourists as tourists.

ScottBurson 13y ago

Try the Unitarians, perhaps. They are very non-dogmatic. I don't think they would reject an atheist at all -- in fact a few of them might privately admit to agreeing with you.

spacehome 13y ago
I can confirm. I was raised in a Unitarian Universalist church, and there were a sizable minority (best guess is 10-20%) of adults who were mostly atheistic but wanted a deeper moral, spiritual, and ecological rooting than mainstream atheism provides.

Amadou 13y ago

Serious question: do you (or anyone else) think it's immoral to go to church as an atheist just to meet people? My opinion, as an atheist who finds personal religiosity quite boring, but finds the cultural phenomena of religion rather interesting, is that most people who attend church do so for socialization rather than faith. Most people (not all) don't really know much about their own religion, they just participate in the rituals because that's what they've always done and they've had no reason to really question it. There are quite a lot of people who give lip service to their religion but live effectively secular lives. Challenge them on it and they will likely become defensive, but actions speak louder than words. So, I think you'll find plenty of people at church who are looking for socialization and aren't particularly interested in dogma. I'd stay away from the more extremist sects (people that do snake-handling and speaking in tongues are there for more than just something to do on the weekend). FWIW, in college, my muslim friends were always having parties that had their mosque membership as a central connection (not "college parties" but more than just dinners) I never got preached at, but some discussions were over my head ... plus they also had the best food. My connection was a girlfriend who was an immigrant and essentially a secular muslim.

mtdewcmu 13y ago
My opinion, as an atheist who finds personal religiosity quite boring... is that most people who attend church do so for socialization rather than faith. Most people (not all) don't really know much about their own religion, they just participate in the rituals because that's what they've always done and they've had no reason to really question it. I've observed that, but I've never understood it. I was raised to go to church on Sundays, but I found it about as enjoyable as going to prison. As a child, adults would tell me that someday I would start to like going to church, but it never happened. I seem to lack whatever gene makes people begin to like things and continue doing them just out of habit. As an irony, I was a good student in CCD (Catholic education) and I probably possess more knowledge about Catholicism and Christianity than those habitual church-goers. I like to know things, but I can't stand the tedious rituals. It just shows that knowledge of religion and actually practicing it are not related or perhaps negatively correlated.

mtdewcmu 13y ago

One of the benefits of being an atheist IMO is not having to worry about unwittingly committing trivial sins. No one is keeping score.

clarebear 13y ago

Try Unitarian Universalism. They accept atheists, Wicca, Christians, etc. and do not try to convert theist beliefs. They are much more about living softly and helping others.

steve19 13y ago

As it happens, aside from a church, I also attend a place of worship for another religion which I do not belong to, nor have/will I ever. But I attend as often as I can for cultural and social reasons, including participating in religious festivals. Never had a problem. I have never pretended to be something I am not. It is not immoral at all. If someone asks, just say you are not a Christian and you are just checking the place out. Don't lie or pretend to be otherwise. None of the Churches I have been to would care if you are not a Christian, but if they do care, go to another church. Churches vary a lot in beliefs and culture. I would not try engage in religious debate to prove their God does not exist ... no religious folks like to hear that (and some may be very offended if done inside a church). If you are young and near a college, go to a college-orientated church (just about any church close to a large campus).