6 ms·

America's underground market for adopted children

68 points by sir_kitty 13y ago

greenburger 13y ago
I'm floored by Facebook's response to being notified that potentially illegal child exchanges were being conducted on the site. FTA: 'A similar forum on Facebook, Way Stations of Love, remains active. A Facebook spokeswoman says the page shows "that the Internet is a reflection of society, and people are using it for all kinds of communications and to tackle all sorts of problems, including very complicated issues such as this one."' While I agree there are limits to the culpability of a company like Facebook, and they will never fully police all the activities of their billion plus users, this strikes me as very blasé. Surely they don't believe that anything and everything that occurs on the Internet is also appropriate to occur on Facebook. Or do they now believe that Facebook is the internet? edit: typo
- amalag 13y ago
  I can't see how one can put much blame on Facebook if people are using it for legal purposes. I think there is no enforcement because there is no money to be made in it. Unlike drug crimes where the government can confiscate property. Should the government enforce mandatory checks in such cases? Involve child services if guardianship is transferred in the area?
- DanBC 13y ago
  Is facebook still blocking photos of breast-feeding mothers (but allowing beheading videos?)
rdtsc 13y ago
There was a Reddit post about this not too long ago. A mom of an adopted child posted. She described how many parents, including her, had no idea what they were getting into adopting a child coming from a troubled background. Things that child did, as she described it, were very disturbing, and would bring many people to their brink. So one can argue it starts with ignorance. People think raising a child is a walk in the park, playing baseball outside on the front lawn, going to football practice and all the nice stuff people see on TV. From there it moves on to lies. Overseas adoption agencies can be very shady. They want to close the deal. They will hide and paper over medical histories. Then once a child with severe psychological issues (some which manifest themselves 6 or more months later only), become apparent. The despair starts to take hold. Then someone knows someone who heard about his online "marketplace" and so on. It puts an idea in their head. Then, a loophole in the law is used. The idea behind having laws to transfer guardianship is to get kids to stay with family members and to keep them out of trouble if say immediate parents create an unsafe environment. Unfortunately that same provision the way it is written allow pretty quick transfer of guardianship and it is exploited in this case. I would want to believe some of these children end up in home that try to help them, parents who know how to handle such issues better, but unfortunately quite often that is a market for predators looking for victim. The article has a few disturbing details on that, I won't reiterate here.
- ricardobeat 13y ago
  This is also a failure of social services / the agency that regulates adoptions. Over here I know that the adoptive family has to go through a long vetting process, and needs to have proven financial means to provide for them and the children.
- x0x0 13y ago
  It's not that they will paper over problems a child has; if you read other sources they will outright lie. I also recall reading, unfortunately an article that I can no longer find, that China and Russia would often give severely challenged children to US adoptive parents. The article also emphasizes that the US government, both federal and state, offers virtually no help to the parents and highlights a case where the parents where threatened with prosecution because they couldn't handle a child that had physically hurt one of their other children. There is plenty of blame to go around, unfortunately, but it really highlights the almost complete lack of mental health care available in the US and the lack of help for parents who have very damaged children, whether adopted or not.
  - grahamburger 13y ago
    My parents adopted my sister from Russia about 20 years ago. At the time, Russian law only allowed foreign adoptions if the child had a physical or mental disability. My sister had a crossed eye, that was sufficient to allow her out of the country. She is now 22 years old, going to college, and living a happy, healthy life. Some friends of my parents adopted two children from the same orphanage, a brother and sister. The brother had serious issues - trying to kill his parents and run away at 6 years old type thing. They eventually placed him in the home of parents with no other children who were looking for a child like that to care for, I lost track of the story after that. The sister is also leading a normal, ostensibly happy life, though.
    - hosh 13y ago
      Yeah, it's the kind of thing that requires almost all of one's attention on.
    - 13y ago
Shtirlic 13y ago
Interesting read, btw in Russia from January 1, 2013 there is a law that bans adoptions of Russian children by United States citizens.
- usaphp 13y ago
  Most of the developed countries forbid adoptions of country nationals by foreign citizens, how many US children got adopted by foreign countries?...not sure why Russian media is making such a big buzz around this law, probably just to find one more way to criticize Putin.
  - askar_yu 13y ago
    Honestly I am not sure whether the Russian media made any big deal at all out of that, I would bet in fact even if they did, it was far (lower) from the extent to which American media did. Not to mention the protests held by thousands in the US.
  - cfjedimaster 13y ago
    I don't have numbers, but people from outside America can adopt American children.
  - w1ntermute 13y ago
    > Most of the developed countries forbid adoptions of country nationals by foreign citizens I wouldn't exactly consider Russia "developed".
    - gambiting 13y ago
      I wouldn't consider your opinion well thought through.
      - w1ntermute 13y ago
        Well, you're wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_country http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_country Protip: next time, try doing some basic research before making an uneducated comment.
ricardobeat 13y ago
Land of the free. Maybe legal custody should be limited to relatives or people with a proven connection to the official family, or disallowed at all for children adopted from foreign countries? It is disturbing to read all these ads talking about "private adoption" like it's a puppy trade fair.
- ams6110 13y ago
  Why not take it to its logical conclusion and require a government permit, after proving responsibility, to get pregnant and bear a child? I'd be willing to bet there are an order of magnitude or more kids suffering abuse and neglect living with their biological parents than there are living in a "private guardianship" arrangement.
  - ricardobeat 13y ago
    Whoa. I'm talking about giving out your children to strangers just by signing a piece of paper; though I'd be willing to bet against your assumption, it is said that adopted children are more prone to mental and behavioral issues. In any case, that's what social services do, only after the fact instead of a pre-screening.
samstave 13y ago
If you have not seen it, please watch the Conspiracy Of Silence documentary. Also - if you are unaware, you should look into Johnny Gosh/Jeff Gannon and how he relates to the Bush/Republican party with respect to the information revealed in the Conspiracy of Silence.
- rglovejoy 13y ago
  I see that I'm too late to downvote you. You're talking about a hoax: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_child_prostitution_ring_allegations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_child_prostitution_rin...
  - samstave 13y ago
    Please cite ANYTHING other than that wikipedia. Seriously; I am not saying you are wrong - but I am aware of no credible refutation of this matter - and actually, through my own, personal experience as well as the information I have seen for nearly 2 decades, I cannot dismiss this. Please provide more info. When I am in a place of "typing" I can expound on both my experience as well as that which I have seen in this matter I would appreciate whatever info you could -- I am personally aware of massive child abuse situations that happened here in California. I suspect you only believe this to be a hoax only because you cant fathom the people involved. An written article does not refute reality - so you're on (my) hook to defend your claims.
Aloha 13y ago
What a well presented and interesting article.

68 points by sir_kitty 13y ago

I'm floored by Facebook's response to being notified that potentially illegal child exchanges were being conducted on the site. FTA: 'A similar forum on Facebook, Way Stations of Love, remains active. A Facebook spokeswoman says the page shows "that the Internet is a reflection of society, and people are using it for all kinds of communications and to tackle all sorts of problems, including very complicated issues such as this one."' While I agree there are limits to the culpability of a company like Facebook, and they will never fully police all the activities of their billion plus users, this strikes me as very blasé. Surely they don't believe that anything and everything that occurs on the Internet is also appropriate to occur on Facebook. Or do they now believe that Facebook is the internet? edit: typo

amalag 13y ago
I can't see how one can put much blame on Facebook if people are using it for legal purposes. I think there is no enforcement because there is no money to be made in it. Unlike drug crimes where the government can confiscate property. Should the government enforce mandatory checks in such cases? Involve child services if guardianship is transferred in the area?
DanBC 13y ago
Is facebook still blocking photos of breast-feeding mothers (but allowing beheading videos?)

rdtsc 13y ago

There was a Reddit post about this not too long ago. A mom of an adopted child posted. She described how many parents, including her, had no idea what they were getting into adopting a child coming from a troubled background. Things that child did, as she described it, were very disturbing, and would bring many people to their brink. So one can argue it starts with ignorance. People think raising a child is a walk in the park, playing baseball outside on the front lawn, going to football practice and all the nice stuff people see on TV. From there it moves on to lies. Overseas adoption agencies can be very shady. They want to close the deal. They will hide and paper over medical histories. Then once a child with severe psychological issues (some which manifest themselves 6 or more months later only), become apparent. The despair starts to take hold. Then someone knows someone who heard about his online "marketplace" and so on. It puts an idea in their head. Then, a loophole in the law is used. The idea behind having laws to transfer guardianship is to get kids to stay with family members and to keep them out of trouble if say immediate parents create an unsafe environment. Unfortunately that same provision the way it is written allow pretty quick transfer of guardianship and it is exploited in this case. I would want to believe some of these children end up in home that try to help them, parents who know how to handle such issues better, but unfortunately quite often that is a market for predators looking for victim. The article has a few disturbing details on that, I won't reiterate here.

ricardobeat 13y ago
This is also a failure of social services / the agency that regulates adoptions. Over here I know that the adoptive family has to go through a long vetting process, and needs to have proven financial means to provide for them and the children.
x0x0 13y ago
It's not that they will paper over problems a child has; if you read other sources they will outright lie. I also recall reading, unfortunately an article that I can no longer find, that China and Russia would often give severely challenged children to US adoptive parents. The article also emphasizes that the US government, both federal and state, offers virtually no help to the parents and highlights a case where the parents where threatened with prosecution because they couldn't handle a child that had physically hurt one of their other children. There is plenty of blame to go around, unfortunately, but it really highlights the almost complete lack of mental health care available in the US and the lack of help for parents who have very damaged children, whether adopted or not.
- grahamburger 13y ago
  My parents adopted my sister from Russia about 20 years ago. At the time, Russian law only allowed foreign adoptions if the child had a physical or mental disability. My sister had a crossed eye, that was sufficient to allow her out of the country. She is now 22 years old, going to college, and living a happy, healthy life. Some friends of my parents adopted two children from the same orphanage, a brother and sister. The brother had serious issues - trying to kill his parents and run away at 6 years old type thing. They eventually placed him in the home of parents with no other children who were looking for a child like that to care for, I lost track of the story after that. The sister is also leading a normal, ostensibly happy life, though.
  - hosh 13y ago
    Yeah, it's the kind of thing that requires almost all of one's attention on.
  - 13y ago

Shtirlic 13y ago

Interesting read, btw in Russia from January 1, 2013 there is a law that bans adoptions of Russian children by United States citizens.

usaphp 13y ago
Most of the developed countries forbid adoptions of country nationals by foreign citizens, how many US children got adopted by foreign countries?...not sure why Russian media is making such a big buzz around this law, probably just to find one more way to criticize Putin.
- askar_yu 13y ago
  Honestly I am not sure whether the Russian media made any big deal at all out of that, I would bet in fact even if they did, it was far (lower) from the extent to which American media did. Not to mention the protests held by thousands in the US.
- cfjedimaster 13y ago
  I don't have numbers, but people from outside America can adopt American children.
- w1ntermute 13y ago
  > Most of the developed countries forbid adoptions of country nationals by foreign citizens I wouldn't exactly consider Russia "developed".
  - gambiting 13y ago
    I wouldn't consider your opinion well thought through.
    - w1ntermute 13y ago
      Well, you're wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_country http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_country Protip: next time, try doing some basic research before making an uneducated comment.

ricardobeat 13y ago

Land of the free. Maybe legal custody should be limited to relatives or people with a proven connection to the official family, or disallowed at all for children adopted from foreign countries? It is disturbing to read all these ads talking about "private adoption" like it's a puppy trade fair.

ams6110 13y ago
Why not take it to its logical conclusion and require a government permit, after proving responsibility, to get pregnant and bear a child? I'd be willing to bet there are an order of magnitude or more kids suffering abuse and neglect living with their biological parents than there are living in a "private guardianship" arrangement.
- ricardobeat 13y ago
  Whoa. I'm talking about giving out your children to strangers just by signing a piece of paper; though I'd be willing to bet against your assumption, it is said that adopted children are more prone to mental and behavioral issues. In any case, that's what social services do, only after the fact instead of a pre-screening.

samstave 13y ago

If you have not seen it, please watch the Conspiracy Of Silence documentary. Also - if you are unaware, you should look into Johnny Gosh/Jeff Gannon and how he relates to the Bush/Republican party with respect to the information revealed in the Conspiracy of Silence.

rglovejoy 13y ago
I see that I'm too late to downvote you. You're talking about a hoax: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_child_prostitution_ring_allegations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_child_prostitution_rin...
- samstave 13y ago
  Please cite ANYTHING other than that wikipedia. Seriously; I am not saying you are wrong - but I am aware of no credible refutation of this matter - and actually, through my own, personal experience as well as the information I have seen for nearly 2 decades, I cannot dismiss this. Please provide more info. When I am in a place of "typing" I can expound on both my experience as well as that which I have seen in this matter I would appreciate whatever info you could -- I am personally aware of massive child abuse situations that happened here in California. I suspect you only believe this to be a hoax only because you cant fathom the people involved. An written article does not refute reality - so you're on (my) hook to defend your claims.

Aloha 13y ago

What a well presented and interesting article.