3 ms·

It's stories like this that make me wish we had the term "national security" as narrowly defined as the term "treason". I wouldn't be surprised if many of Amer

It's stories like this that make me wish we had the term "national security" as narrowly defined as the term "treason". I wouldn't be surprised if many of America's largest corporations most often present their corporate interests as national security interests when they are lobbying our politicians. Looking at that map, we need to be asking questions about where so many of those "implants" are located. I'm not surprised by all the little yellow dots covering China and Russia, But what are they doing littered all over Latin America (except Venezuela and Cuba). I would like to here the justification for considering Brazil a national security threat. Same for the red dots in places like Spain, Portugal and France. The only national security threat in Brazil AFAIK is the Comando Vermelho[0], which operates out of Rio de Janeiro. And even then, only a few of the criminal organization leaders in Brazil tenuously relevant to US national security interests, such as Fernandinho Beira Mar[1]. The only way to justify the extent of such offensive implants is if we are using a definition of "national security" that is overly broad. The only conclusion I can come to is that we've effectively waging a war against the rest of the World without an act of Congress declaring such a war. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comando_Vermelho http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comando_Vermelho [1] IIRC, FBM is responsible for supplying a lot of the advanced Russian-made arms to the FARC. Even then the FARC is only a national security interest of the US because of our completely failed war on drugs.

consonants 13y ago
Given the US's covert and not so covert operations in Latin America, this comes as no surprise. Just because our goons are aren't over there making sure our economic interests are enforced doesn't mean we gave up on our stronghold.
tracker1 13y ago
Not to excuse the actions, which I find deplorable. Isn't Brazil one of our major agricultural trading partners? Making the internal security interests of Brazil our security interests? If our food supply was cut by 1/3 during half the year, that could be a big issue.
- dmix 13y ago
  > If our food supply was cut by 1/3 during half the year, that could be a big issue. That would also be a massive issue for Brazil to lose their largest agricultural trading partner. It's a competitive marketplace. Their industry, law enforcement agencies, and courts are sufficiently incentivized to protect it, or risk losing it to other countries. I'm amazed that people view the need for some World Police to control and monitor our economic interests abroad, when there has been no clear failure of markets or democratic processes at protecting them historically. These rationalizations sound border-line schizophrenic and paranoid. With scenarios comparable to conspiracies theories. Are there really economic threats that necessitate secret intelligence agencies intercepting private communications of citizens within friendly sovereign nations? And a threat to whom? The representative population? Or primarily the special interests of the government - from where these secret orders/intelligence are held, classified, and acted upon in secret?
  - malandrew 13y ago
    Furthermore, once you toss out the schizophrenic/paranoia explanation of why the NSA is doing this, the only other explanation is economic espionage, which they've claimed they haven't been doing. However know one knows the truth, and given what has been demonstrated so far, most countries should assume the worst with respect to the use of the NSA for economic espionage, and treat the US as a suspect trading partner.
Perceval 13y ago
> It's stories like this that make me wish we had the term "national security" as narrowly defined as the term "treason". The U.S. Constitution has Article I, Section 8, Clause 1 that reads: > The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; People on the political left seem to favor a broad interpretation of the powers that "general welfare" gives to the federal government. Why isn't there a similar acceptance of the broad powers that "common defense" grants the federal government in the same clause?

consonants 13y ago

Given the US's covert and not so covert operations in Latin America, this comes as no surprise. Just because our goons are aren't over there making sure our economic interests are enforced doesn't mean we gave up on our stronghold.

tracker1 13y ago

Not to excuse the actions, which I find deplorable. Isn't Brazil one of our major agricultural trading partners? Making the internal security interests of Brazil our security interests? If our food supply was cut by 1/3 during half the year, that could be a big issue.

dmix 13y ago
> If our food supply was cut by 1/3 during half the year, that could be a big issue. That would also be a massive issue for Brazil to lose their largest agricultural trading partner. It's a competitive marketplace. Their industry, law enforcement agencies, and courts are sufficiently incentivized to protect it, or risk losing it to other countries. I'm amazed that people view the need for some World Police to control and monitor our economic interests abroad, when there has been no clear failure of markets or democratic processes at protecting them historically. These rationalizations sound border-line schizophrenic and paranoid. With scenarios comparable to conspiracies theories. Are there really economic threats that necessitate secret intelligence agencies intercepting private communications of citizens within friendly sovereign nations? And a threat to whom? The representative population? Or primarily the special interests of the government - from where these secret orders/intelligence are held, classified, and acted upon in secret?
- malandrew 13y ago
  Furthermore, once you toss out the schizophrenic/paranoia explanation of why the NSA is doing this, the only other explanation is economic espionage, which they've claimed they haven't been doing. However know one knows the truth, and given what has been demonstrated so far, most countries should assume the worst with respect to the use of the NSA for economic espionage, and treat the US as a suspect trading partner.

Perceval 13y ago

> It's stories like this that make me wish we had the term "national security" as narrowly defined as the term "treason". The U.S. Constitution has Article I, Section 8, Clause 1 that reads: > The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; People on the political left seem to favor a broad interpretation of the powers that "general welfare" gives to the federal government. Why isn't there a similar acceptance of the broad powers that "common defense" grants the federal government in the same clause?