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Sincerely, you're wrong. GreatFire.org exists to end China's censorship - they have pondered long, researched, and have not missed your point. China's weaknes

Sincerely, you're wrong. GreatFire.org exists to end China's censorship - they have pondered long, researched, and have not missed your point. China's weakness is they cannot censor where it crimps the economy too much. Read: Collateral Freedom https://openitp.org/pdfs/CollateralFreedom.pdf https://openitp.org/pdfs/CollateralFreedom.pdf China blocking all Google products would make such a backlash in China that it's not a feasible move for the China government. Just as with Github, too many people would complain about losing $$ in the economy. Gmail, Android, Chrome, Picasa, Google Drive, Docs, Translate, Maps, Scholar, Books, Earth, AppEngine, Research, Hangouts. Too many Chinese rely on these financially, and in their jobs. GreatFire.org is right. This is a superb defrocking of censorship that will work. The real question is why isn't Google doing this.

magicalist 13y ago
To be fair, a number of those are regularly and/or completely blocked in China, e.g. Google Drive[1] and encrypted.google.com[2] completely (if I'm reading those right) and gmail[3] often enough to be notable. [1] https://zh.greatfire.org/https/drive.google.com https://zh.greatfire.org/https/drive.google.com [2] https://zh.greatfire.org/encrypted.google.com https://zh.greatfire.org/encrypted.google.com [3] https://zh.greatfire.org/https/mail.google.com https://zh.greatfire.org/https/mail.google.com
- kryptiskt 13y ago
  Also, Android in China is completely degoogleified. No Google accounts, no Play, no GMail...
  - yapcguy 13y ago
    Surely that's a good thing?!
- teawithcarl 13y ago
  The translation of your link for Gmail says Gmail is (only) 9% blocked in China.
  - magicalist 13y ago
    right, which is why I said "often enough to be notable". Nearly 1 out of 10 visits blocked would certainly make use of it difficult. However, almost all of the samples for gmail are colored orange, but google translate doesn't do a great job of translating the legend ("矛盾" -> "Contradiction"?), or at least I'm not sure what that means.
  - ronaldx 13y ago
    If Gmail didn't work 9% of the time, nobody would use it.
wodenokoto 13y ago
You've never been to China, have you? Access to gmail is spotty and unreliable, like most other google services. Android phones connect to Chinese android market and most have alternative chinese only app markets. If google where to stop access to android market, people would get pissed, but switch app-provider. For the rest, these are barely used services. I don't even think hangouts are accessible, since it's a part of Google+, which is blocked. Maps? Year, it's nice, but so is Baidu maps. Picasa? Which economy is impacted by picasa? > China's weakness is they cannot censor where it crimps the economy too much. It's brilliant. While this is true, google is not one of them.
- charliesmith 13y ago
  How about Amazon?
- teawithcarl 13y ago
  I've been going to China since 1985 (28 years), speak Chinese and Japanese, and read the newspapers fluently in both.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
marukokino 13y ago
--Gmail, Android, Chrome, Picasa, Google Drive, Docs, Translate, Maps, Scholar, Books, Earth, AppEngine, Research, Hangouts. Too many Chinese rely on these financially, and in their jobs-- google docs, google drive, google videos are already blocked in China, google images is almost useless, as it blocks in the second search, then you have to restart the browser to search another keyword for images ( count until 10 before restart the browser ) and even google search is almost useless in most of China, as it takes too long to return the results (except for the big cities, where it works ok) , same for Gmail, it takes 5 minutes to open, and often never opens, the progress bar just stops in the middle.Again, this is not for big cities, but try to open Gmail out of the urban area of big cities and wait. Lan-houses(cyber cafes) dont open Gmail even in big cities. The impact on economy for completely blocking google will be almost zero. I live in China for 10 years, right now using a ssh to open gmail.

magicalist 13y ago

To be fair, a number of those are regularly and/or completely blocked in China, e.g. Google Drive[1] and encrypted.google.com[2] completely (if I'm reading those right) and gmail[3] often enough to be notable. [1] https://zh.greatfire.org/https/drive.google.com https://zh.greatfire.org/https/drive.google.com [2] https://zh.greatfire.org/encrypted.google.com https://zh.greatfire.org/encrypted.google.com [3] https://zh.greatfire.org/https/mail.google.com https://zh.greatfire.org/https/mail.google.com

kryptiskt 13y ago
Also, Android in China is completely degoogleified. No Google accounts, no Play, no GMail...
- yapcguy 13y ago
  Surely that's a good thing?!
teawithcarl 13y ago
The translation of your link for Gmail says Gmail is (only) 9% blocked in China.
- magicalist 13y ago
  right, which is why I said "often enough to be notable". Nearly 1 out of 10 visits blocked would certainly make use of it difficult. However, almost all of the samples for gmail are colored orange, but google translate doesn't do a great job of translating the legend ("矛盾" -> "Contradiction"?), or at least I'm not sure what that means.
- ronaldx 13y ago
  If Gmail didn't work 9% of the time, nobody would use it.

wodenokoto 13y ago

You've never been to China, have you? Access to gmail is spotty and unreliable, like most other google services. Android phones connect to Chinese android market and most have alternative chinese only app markets. If google where to stop access to android market, people would get pissed, but switch app-provider. For the rest, these are barely used services. I don't even think hangouts are accessible, since it's a part of Google+, which is blocked. Maps? Year, it's nice, but so is Baidu maps. Picasa? Which economy is impacted by picasa? > China's weakness is they cannot censor where it crimps the economy too much. It's brilliant. While this is true, google is not one of them.

charliesmith 13y ago
How about Amazon?
teawithcarl 13y ago
I've been going to China since 1985 (28 years), speak Chinese and Japanese, and read the newspapers fluently in both.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

marukokino 13y ago

--Gmail, Android, Chrome, Picasa, Google Drive, Docs, Translate, Maps, Scholar, Books, Earth, AppEngine, Research, Hangouts. Too many Chinese rely on these financially, and in their jobs-- google docs, google drive, google videos are already blocked in China, google images is almost useless, as it blocks in the second search, then you have to restart the browser to search another keyword for images ( count until 10 before restart the browser ) and even google search is almost useless in most of China, as it takes too long to return the results (except for the big cities, where it works ok) , same for Gmail, it takes 5 minutes to open, and often never opens, the progress bar just stops in the middle.Again, this is not for big cities, but try to open Gmail out of the urban area of big cities and wait. Lan-houses(cyber cafes) dont open Gmail even in big cities. The impact on economy for completely blocking google will be almost zero. I live in China for 10 years, right now using a ssh to open gmail.