8 ms·

When one is in public, out of eyesight of any non-friendlies, one does indeed expect privacy. When one is moving across several disparate geographical location

When one is in public, out of eyesight of any non-friendlies, one does indeed expect privacy. When one is moving across several disparate geographical locations, there is indeed an expectation of privacy. The simple "hurf durf you're in public ergo no privacy ever" argument is horseshit, to put it bluntly.

res0nat0r 13y ago
Not really. Where are these exceptions above you mention defined in the law?
- nitrogen 13y ago
  As one example, you are not legally allowed to record a conversation to which you are not a party, and in some states, you need all participants' consent.
  - res0nat0r 13y ago
    But driving down the street and having your unique identifier on the back of your captured via camera isn't against the law.
    - nitrogen 13y ago
      Perhaps not yet, but it should be illegal to collect and record license plate data en masse. Traffic monitoring for DOT optimization purposes can be done without uniquely identifying vehicles. Individual license plates can be compared against a wanted and stolen list without storing them. Witnesses of a crime can write down individual license plate numbers. But wide-scale recording of innocent individuals' historical movements via license plate numbers (and, for that matter, cell phone towers) ought to be illegal the same way wiretapping is illegal.
      - diminoten 13y ago
        You keep saying "should" and "should not" but you're not explaining why.
diminoten 13y ago
I have a right to record when I see you. Everyone has that right. If you're free to act, I'm free to record that act, assuming you've acted in public. Also, what's "horseshit" about "you don't have privacy when you act in public"? I'm not recording your conversations as you're in public, only what you do. Why is that horseshit?
- moutarde 13y ago
  > Why is that horseshit? Because historically (and also legally) the bounds between what is private and public have been defined by what was plausible at the time, not by what was hypothetically possible. We know live in a world were what used to a be a hypothetical dream (or science fiction novel) has now become the mundane. The law can either adapt (via judicial rulings), be changed by voters or become an absurd anachronism that's good for nothing but justifying invasive surveillance.
  - diminoten 13y ago
    History and legality are not relevant morally. It's morally wrong to try and stop me from automatically recording the license plates of the people who drive by my house.
    - maxerickson 13y ago
      But you recording by your house isn't that interesting. It is more complicated when you start talking about whether you should sell derivations of those recordings or someone aggregating the recordings made by many people.
      - diminoten 13y ago
        It's not much more complicated. If I own properties throughout the city, and at each of those properties I record every license plate that drives by, I'm well within my rights to not only do that, but to aggregate that data and supply it to others if they ask. It's the exact same thing as CCTV, fundamentally. How can you construct an argument that prevents me from doing this without preventing many things we already are okay with?

res0nat0r 13y ago

Not really. Where are these exceptions above you mention defined in the law?

nitrogen 13y ago
As one example, you are not legally allowed to record a conversation to which you are not a party, and in some states, you need all participants' consent.
- res0nat0r 13y ago
  But driving down the street and having your unique identifier on the back of your captured via camera isn't against the law.
  - nitrogen 13y ago
    Perhaps not yet, but it should be illegal to collect and record license plate data en masse. Traffic monitoring for DOT optimization purposes can be done without uniquely identifying vehicles. Individual license plates can be compared against a wanted and stolen list without storing them. Witnesses of a crime can write down individual license plate numbers. But wide-scale recording of innocent individuals' historical movements via license plate numbers (and, for that matter, cell phone towers) ought to be illegal the same way wiretapping is illegal.
    - diminoten 13y ago
      You keep saying "should" and "should not" but you're not explaining why.

diminoten 13y ago

I have a right to record when I see you. Everyone has that right. If you're free to act, I'm free to record that act, assuming you've acted in public. Also, what's "horseshit" about "you don't have privacy when you act in public"? I'm not recording your conversations as you're in public, only what you do. Why is that horseshit?

moutarde 13y ago
> Why is that horseshit? Because historically (and also legally) the bounds between what is private and public have been defined by what was plausible at the time, not by what was hypothetically possible. We know live in a world were what used to a be a hypothetical dream (or science fiction novel) has now become the mundane. The law can either adapt (via judicial rulings), be changed by voters or become an absurd anachronism that's good for nothing but justifying invasive surveillance.
- diminoten 13y ago
  History and legality are not relevant morally. It's morally wrong to try and stop me from automatically recording the license plates of the people who drive by my house.
  - maxerickson 13y ago
    But you recording by your house isn't that interesting. It is more complicated when you start talking about whether you should sell derivations of those recordings or someone aggregating the recordings made by many people.
    - diminoten 13y ago
      It's not much more complicated. If I own properties throughout the city, and at each of those properties I record every license plate that drives by, I'm well within my rights to not only do that, but to aggregate that data and supply it to others if they ask. It's the exact same thing as CCTV, fundamentally. How can you construct an argument that prevents me from doing this without preventing many things we already are okay with?