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We used to ask job candidates to do something similar. Since then, publishing code samples became the normal thing to do, so we simply require code samples ins

We used to ask job candidates to do something similar. Since then, publishing code samples became the normal thing to do, so we simply require code samples instead, and give out the coding task only when they have nothing at all to share with us. If you're in the job market, publishing some sample code, even if it's just a throwaway toy instead of, say, a full blown OSS project, can be a great tool for people to evaluate you as a candidate.

silverbax88 13y ago
I would never go to an interview which wanted to present me with a code challenge, and I don't have publicly available code repositories for you to browse. What I do have is years of experience building mission critical applications that move millions of dollars per day in transactions, and I have a solid track record of being easy to work with. I am good at what I do and I work hard to be an asset to any company that employs me, and I work hard to be enjoyable to work with. If you can't be good enough to figure that out from a conversation and looking at my track record, why would I work for you? BTW, I haven't had to look for a job in over 13 years - although I've worked for several companies during that time.
- mooreds 13y ago
  tl;dr: if companies know that they are going to miss quality candidates with a code challenge, and are ok with that, it's ok to have one. If candidates are ok with giving some companies the miss because they won't put up with a challenge, that's ok too. And code challenges are good for some types of positions and not others. I agree that companies are excluding people such as yourself with these coding challenges. That's their right, just as it is your right to not apply to any companies that require such challenges. If someone is finding good candidates with a coding challenge, that's great. If someone is finding good jobs while avoiding coding challenges, that's great too. I will say that there's some nuance implied in your comment that simply isn't present in any of the github/coding challenge blog posts that have popped up on HN over the last few days. Whether a coding challenge is appropriate doesn't just depend on the company or the candidate--it also depends on the position! It's far easier to test junior/mid level skills than senior skills in a 1-2 hour task. Geez, some of the skills you mention above would be hard to test in a 1-2 day task. When you are looking for esoteric, softer, or more senior skills (requirements gathering, or architecture), you need other ways of evaluating candidates beyond a code challenge. Things like what you suggest: conversations, references, etc. Of course, there are some "senior" folks out there who aren't great coders even though they talk a good game, and if coding is what the position requires, a code challenge is fine.
- absconditus 13y ago
  The problem is that many people in our industry lie or stretch the truth a bit. Some of them are even good at bullshitting about it. I work with several people who have over a decade of experience with "mission critical" applications and do not have the commensurate skills.
- McGlockenshire 13y ago
  > What I do have is years of experience building mission critical applications that move millions of dollars per day in transactions, and I have a solid track record of being easy to work with. > If you can't be good enough to figure that out from a conversation and looking at my track record, why would I work for you? Just because you can get something done, that doesn't mean you did it by writing well-thought-out, sanely structured, maintainable, readable, useful code. I mean, you probably aren't bad if you're bragging about yourself like this, but who really knows until the code is visible? The language and environment we work in isn't known for high-quality coders. Quite the opposite. Filtering out the wheat from the chaff is basically a requirement, even for the people that seem good after a phone screen and an in-person interview.
  - silverbax88 13y ago
    "Just because you can get something done, that doesn't mean you did it by writing well-thought-out, sanely structured, maintainable, readable, useful code." At no point did I claim to 'just get things done'. YOU said that. What I wrote was that I have years of experience building mission critical applications (which, of course, I would not claim if I could not prove). It's not hard to prove or disprove if someone knows what they are talking about. I view 'coding challenges' as a sign that the company is not confident in their ability to assess people. It's a red flag to me. It's an amateur move. It tells me a LOT about the company from the inside, and it's not good. 'Coding challenges' are for companies who don't understand the skill set they are hiring for. I've hired plenty of devs over the years as well - we've had some bad ass programmers who worked for us, and I never needed a coding challenge to figure out who to hire.

silverbax88 13y ago

I would never go to an interview which wanted to present me with a code challenge, and I don't have publicly available code repositories for you to browse. What I do have is years of experience building mission critical applications that move millions of dollars per day in transactions, and I have a solid track record of being easy to work with. I am good at what I do and I work hard to be an asset to any company that employs me, and I work hard to be enjoyable to work with. If you can't be good enough to figure that out from a conversation and looking at my track record, why would I work for you? BTW, I haven't had to look for a job in over 13 years - although I've worked for several companies during that time.

mooreds 13y ago
tl;dr: if companies know that they are going to miss quality candidates with a code challenge, and are ok with that, it's ok to have one. If candidates are ok with giving some companies the miss because they won't put up with a challenge, that's ok too. And code challenges are good for some types of positions and not others. I agree that companies are excluding people such as yourself with these coding challenges. That's their right, just as it is your right to not apply to any companies that require such challenges. If someone is finding good candidates with a coding challenge, that's great. If someone is finding good jobs while avoiding coding challenges, that's great too. I will say that there's some nuance implied in your comment that simply isn't present in any of the github/coding challenge blog posts that have popped up on HN over the last few days. Whether a coding challenge is appropriate doesn't just depend on the company or the candidate--it also depends on the position! It's far easier to test junior/mid level skills than senior skills in a 1-2 hour task. Geez, some of the skills you mention above would be hard to test in a 1-2 day task. When you are looking for esoteric, softer, or more senior skills (requirements gathering, or architecture), you need other ways of evaluating candidates beyond a code challenge. Things like what you suggest: conversations, references, etc. Of course, there are some "senior" folks out there who aren't great coders even though they talk a good game, and if coding is what the position requires, a code challenge is fine.
absconditus 13y ago
The problem is that many people in our industry lie or stretch the truth a bit. Some of them are even good at bullshitting about it. I work with several people who have over a decade of experience with "mission critical" applications and do not have the commensurate skills.
McGlockenshire 13y ago
> What I do have is years of experience building mission critical applications that move millions of dollars per day in transactions, and I have a solid track record of being easy to work with. > If you can't be good enough to figure that out from a conversation and looking at my track record, why would I work for you? Just because you can get something done, that doesn't mean you did it by writing well-thought-out, sanely structured, maintainable, readable, useful code. I mean, you probably aren't bad if you're bragging about yourself like this, but who really knows until the code is visible? The language and environment we work in isn't known for high-quality coders. Quite the opposite. Filtering out the wheat from the chaff is basically a requirement, even for the people that seem good after a phone screen and an in-person interview.
- silverbax88 13y ago
  "Just because you can get something done, that doesn't mean you did it by writing well-thought-out, sanely structured, maintainable, readable, useful code." At no point did I claim to 'just get things done'. YOU said that. What I wrote was that I have years of experience building mission critical applications (which, of course, I would not claim if I could not prove). It's not hard to prove or disprove if someone knows what they are talking about. I view 'coding challenges' as a sign that the company is not confident in their ability to assess people. It's a red flag to me. It's an amateur move. It tells me a LOT about the company from the inside, and it's not good. 'Coding challenges' are for companies who don't understand the skill set they are hiring for. I've hired plenty of devs over the years as well - we've had some bad ass programmers who worked for us, and I never needed a coding challenge to figure out who to hire.