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Do we know who these two people are? No? Then it's anonymous.

by lcasela 13y ago

sp332 13y ago
It's pseudonymous, because if they make a transfer later we'll still know it's the same people.
- dragontamer 13y ago
  Precisely. Pseudonymous is not the same as "anonymous". Lets say the IRS are watching this (and why wouldn't they be?). They now know a multi-million dollar transfer has happened, and are beginning to track it down.
  - sp332 13y ago
    There's no evidence this was an American or in US jurisdiction. Is every country's tax agency going to launch an investigation?
    - Turing_Machine 13y ago
      I wouldn't be surprised if multiple investigations were launched. The downside is that they lose a few thousand to a few hundred thousand dollars in employee time. The upside is that they potentially collect millions in taxes.
- Zr40 13y ago
  You can't know that for sure. I could pay you 2 BTC by giving the private key to a wallet holding 2 BTC. You could even return change in the same way. The physical Bitcoins (like those by Casascius) work exactly like this: physical coins containing a private key hidden behind a seal.
  - dragontamer 13y ago
    You're so open to scammers that it isn't even funny. Lets say I give you a "physical" BTC worth 1 million BTC. Is there any way for me to prove to you that I have erased the private key to this BTC address? No, there isn't. Anyone who is caught using physical BTC coins is a sucker who doesn't understand the system. They can be very easily scammed by the very man who created the "physical BTC coin". After all, all I need to do is keep a copy of the private address, and transfer the money sometime after I've "sold" you the BTC.
    - shocks 13y ago
      Read the FAQ. https://www.casascius.com/faq.aspx https://www.casascius.com/faq.aspx
- IgorPartola 13y ago
  Can't you just generate a new address for every transaction you conduct and remain anonymous?
  - dragontamer 13y ago
    How the heck are you going to put new BTCs into this new address? Unless you have some anonymous way of depositing BTCs into random addresses, all transfers into and out of that address will be stored into the BTC Blockchain _for life_. No, seriously. Forever, for the rest of Bitcoin's history, there will be a record that two addresses transferred BTC between each other. This will be timestamped, cryptographically signed, and archived by the BTC Network. That is... what Bitcoin is after all. It is the ultimate ledger.
    - IgorPartola 13y ago
      No. I was under the impression that the same wallet can have an arbitrary number of addresses. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Address https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Address seems to support this idea.
      - wmf 13y ago
        You can have multiple addresses per wallet but BTC is still stored in addresses, not wallets. So if you have some BTC in address A and none in address B then you can't use B to buy anything. If you transfer money from A to B that leaves a record.
        IgorPartola 13y ago
        But you have no idea if address A and B belong to the same wallet, right? As in, I can create address A, get coins into it, then create addresses B-Z, disburse coins into them, then collect them again? Could I reasonably create enough addresses to create plausible deniability that I actually owned all the coins at all times? Alternatively, could I use a web wallet to bounce coins around to obfuscate ownership?

Do we know who these two people are? No? Then it's anonymous.

by lcasela 13y ago

Do we know who these two people are? No? Then it's anonymous.

sp332 13y ago

It's pseudonymous, because if they make a transfer later we'll still know it's the same people.

dragontamer 13y ago
Precisely. Pseudonymous is not the same as "anonymous". Lets say the IRS are watching this (and why wouldn't they be?). They now know a multi-million dollar transfer has happened, and are beginning to track it down.
- sp332 13y ago
  There's no evidence this was an American or in US jurisdiction. Is every country's tax agency going to launch an investigation?
  - Turing_Machine 13y ago
    I wouldn't be surprised if multiple investigations were launched. The downside is that they lose a few thousand to a few hundred thousand dollars in employee time. The upside is that they potentially collect millions in taxes.
Zr40 13y ago
You can't know that for sure. I could pay you 2 BTC by giving the private key to a wallet holding 2 BTC. You could even return change in the same way. The physical Bitcoins (like those by Casascius) work exactly like this: physical coins containing a private key hidden behind a seal.
- dragontamer 13y ago
  You're so open to scammers that it isn't even funny. Lets say I give you a "physical" BTC worth 1 million BTC. Is there any way for me to prove to you that I have erased the private key to this BTC address? No, there isn't. Anyone who is caught using physical BTC coins is a sucker who doesn't understand the system. They can be very easily scammed by the very man who created the "physical BTC coin". After all, all I need to do is keep a copy of the private address, and transfer the money sometime after I've "sold" you the BTC.
  - shocks 13y ago
    Read the FAQ. https://www.casascius.com/faq.aspx https://www.casascius.com/faq.aspx
IgorPartola 13y ago
Can't you just generate a new address for every transaction you conduct and remain anonymous?
- dragontamer 13y ago
  How the heck are you going to put new BTCs into this new address? Unless you have some anonymous way of depositing BTCs into random addresses, all transfers into and out of that address will be stored into the BTC Blockchain _for life_. No, seriously. Forever, for the rest of Bitcoin's history, there will be a record that two addresses transferred BTC between each other. This will be timestamped, cryptographically signed, and archived by the BTC Network. That is... what Bitcoin is after all. It is the ultimate ledger.
  - IgorPartola 13y ago
    No. I was under the impression that the same wallet can have an arbitrary number of addresses. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Address https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Address seems to support this idea.
    - wmf 13y ago
      You can have multiple addresses per wallet but BTC is still stored in addresses, not wallets. So if you have some BTC in address A and none in address B then you can't use B to buy anything. If you transfer money from A to B that leaves a record.
      - IgorPartola 13y ago
        But you have no idea if address A and B belong to the same wallet, right? As in, I can create address A, get coins into it, then create addresses B-Z, disburse coins into them, then collect them again? Could I reasonably create enough addresses to create plausible deniability that I actually owned all the coins at all times? Alternatively, could I use a web wallet to bounce coins around to obfuscate ownership?