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I explained that there are many more opportunities out there for her to report and inform the public that didn't involve working for a newspaper. ... And still

I explained that there are many more opportunities out there for her to report and inform the public that didn't involve working for a newspaper. ... And still have enough resources (cash) to produce new, valuable information, as opposed to being a gossip outlet or just blogging about things you read elsewhere online? If there are "many more opportunities" how come they're not obvious? Are there really many of them? Can you name a single operating "newspaper replacement"? Assuming every nytimes.com in the world closes its doors tomorrow. What are you going to aggregate?

vaksel 17y ago
thats an unrealistic assumption, if it does happen, it'll be gradual, and he can easily switch from aggregating nytimes to some other web news source
brandnewlow 17y ago
The problem is looking for a "newspaper replacement." That's limiting. You could go report for a wire service covering a state capitol. You could go report for one of the many B2B web sites and publications popping up to serve industries and audiences that actually have money to spend. You could report for one of the many e-mail newsletter businesses that I know are thriving and growing. You could cover real estate news for the blog of a realtor. You could cover food news for the blog of a coalition of restaurants. But if the only job that will make you happy is covering "important stuff" at a newspaper supported by advertising and classifieds that aims at a general audience and maintains a stance of complete objectivity and impartiality, you're closing the door on many opportunities that would employ the same skillset. The reason these opportunities are not obvious is because people keep looking for something that works just like a newspaper. If it works just like a newspaper, it won't be a viable business. If the NYTimes goes under, it'll be replaced by 100 blogs of varying quality and focus. Someone will be rewarded greatly for stepping in there and aggregating them. Did you know there used to be dozens of newspapers in Chicago? Every immigrant group put out its own paper. Is it so crazy to think we might be returning to that model for a while?
- old-gregg 17y ago
  "But if the only job that will make you happy is covering "important stuff"" That's the ONLY job we're discussing here. A journalist, you know. Every single "opportunity" you have listed isn't journalism, those are corporate PR gigs. Real estate news for a blog of a realtor? Seriously? And a hundred of those will be a worthy replacement for New York Times? Blogs aren't new. Five years ago every corporate web site had a "news" section and now it's fashionable to call it a "blog". So that's what journalism school graduates should be wasting their lives writing, and I should be reading from now on? So instead of semi-independent media we'll just have a million little press-releases Working for a "newspaper replacement" isn't limiting, it is actually quite ambitious, especially compared to the PR career you have suggested. No wonder that girl was mad at you. And don't pose as some kind of visionary and don't call someone's ambitions "limiting". Face it: you just want someone else's content to aggregate, i.e. profit from. And you seem to care very little of what that content happens to be. Lets repeat the exercise: how can a young and ambitious reporter find resources to do a high-quality reporting (i.e. not press releases) on toxic food in supermarkets, the war in Iraq, corruption in a state senate, etc? Which "real estate broker" will pay for that?
  - brandnewlow 17y ago
    You sound like one of the anti-linking people. Also, if writing for a wire service isn't journalism, I don't know what is. The problem with it is that you don't get a byline and you have to churn out boilerplate stories at a prodigious pace.
    - old-gregg 17y ago
      I am not one of the anti-linking people, although it sure may serve as a convenient "argument" to you here. The issue in question is you don't seem to be concerned with the media as a 4th branch of the government, you don't see the independent press as crucial component of our political system. I'm quite active politically, and what I have learned is that we, as citizens, have the only tool at our disposal which we can use to fight back against corrupt politicians and various interest groups: i.e. call for a massive media attention. At first glance, Internet should help here big time, right? Well, wrong: Independent web campaigns just don't work: it takes a lot of time and momentum to become visible, often you need the public to intervene ASAP: sometimes it's about saving city parks, sometimes its about public outrage against converting a public interstate highway (paid for with taxpayers dollars) into a toll road controlled by an out-of-state company, sometimes its about ah fuck it, HN is clearly the wrong venue for this. Entrepreneurial programmers simply seek "data" they can crawl and re-post with their own ads, who gives a flying fuck about 4th branches and all that boring offline stuff, right?
alanthonyc 17y ago
If "every single newspaper" closed its doors tomorrow, they would be replaced, quickly and effectively by an as yet undefined alternative. This would be the case even in a microcosmic example, such as a small town as opposed to a whole country. Necessity will breed innovation.

vaksel 17y ago

thats an unrealistic assumption, if it does happen, it'll be gradual, and he can easily switch from aggregating nytimes to some other web news source

brandnewlow 17y ago

The problem is looking for a "newspaper replacement." That's limiting. You could go report for a wire service covering a state capitol. You could go report for one of the many B2B web sites and publications popping up to serve industries and audiences that actually have money to spend. You could report for one of the many e-mail newsletter businesses that I know are thriving and growing. You could cover real estate news for the blog of a realtor. You could cover food news for the blog of a coalition of restaurants. But if the only job that will make you happy is covering "important stuff" at a newspaper supported by advertising and classifieds that aims at a general audience and maintains a stance of complete objectivity and impartiality, you're closing the door on many opportunities that would employ the same skillset. The reason these opportunities are not obvious is because people keep looking for something that works just like a newspaper. If it works just like a newspaper, it won't be a viable business. If the NYTimes goes under, it'll be replaced by 100 blogs of varying quality and focus. Someone will be rewarded greatly for stepping in there and aggregating them. Did you know there used to be dozens of newspapers in Chicago? Every immigrant group put out its own paper. Is it so crazy to think we might be returning to that model for a while?

old-gregg 17y ago
"But if the only job that will make you happy is covering "important stuff"" That's the ONLY job we're discussing here. A journalist, you know. Every single "opportunity" you have listed isn't journalism, those are corporate PR gigs. Real estate news for a blog of a realtor? Seriously? And a hundred of those will be a worthy replacement for New York Times? Blogs aren't new. Five years ago every corporate web site had a "news" section and now it's fashionable to call it a "blog". So that's what journalism school graduates should be wasting their lives writing, and I should be reading from now on? So instead of semi-independent media we'll just have a million little press-releases Working for a "newspaper replacement" isn't limiting, it is actually quite ambitious, especially compared to the PR career you have suggested. No wonder that girl was mad at you. And don't pose as some kind of visionary and don't call someone's ambitions "limiting". Face it: you just want someone else's content to aggregate, i.e. profit from. And you seem to care very little of what that content happens to be. Lets repeat the exercise: how can a young and ambitious reporter find resources to do a high-quality reporting (i.e. not press releases) on toxic food in supermarkets, the war in Iraq, corruption in a state senate, etc? Which "real estate broker" will pay for that?
- brandnewlow 17y ago
  You sound like one of the anti-linking people. Also, if writing for a wire service isn't journalism, I don't know what is. The problem with it is that you don't get a byline and you have to churn out boilerplate stories at a prodigious pace.
  - old-gregg 17y ago
    I am not one of the anti-linking people, although it sure may serve as a convenient "argument" to you here. The issue in question is you don't seem to be concerned with the media as a 4th branch of the government, you don't see the independent press as crucial component of our political system. I'm quite active politically, and what I have learned is that we, as citizens, have the only tool at our disposal which we can use to fight back against corrupt politicians and various interest groups: i.e. call for a massive media attention. At first glance, Internet should help here big time, right? Well, wrong: Independent web campaigns just don't work: it takes a lot of time and momentum to become visible, often you need the public to intervene ASAP: sometimes it's about saving city parks, sometimes its about public outrage against converting a public interstate highway (paid for with taxpayers dollars) into a toll road controlled by an out-of-state company, sometimes its about ah fuck it, HN is clearly the wrong venue for this. Entrepreneurial programmers simply seek "data" they can crawl and re-post with their own ads, who gives a flying fuck about 4th branches and all that boring offline stuff, right?

alanthonyc 17y ago

If "every single newspaper" closed its doors tomorrow, they would be replaced, quickly and effectively by an as yet undefined alternative. This would be the case even in a microcosmic example, such as a small town as opposed to a whole country. Necessity will breed innovation.