4 ms·

My casual surveys of friends and acquaintances is depressing. Most "don't have anything to hide", and don't feel threatened by these developments.

by pstuart 13y ago

dmix 13y ago
Most people put up with overt racism and sexism in American society for > century. I wouldn't count on the average persons sentiment to be indicative of what is moral or correct at this moment in society, or more importantly what is worth fighting to fix. Whereas politicians do. Politicians only follow the pack, much after the movement towards some social progress has been well underway by pioneering citizens for a long period of time.
ihsw 13y ago
In China it's really risky to tell your true opinion to friends because you don't know who is working for the Government. In East Germany (during the Cold War) it was similarly risky to tell your true opinion for the same reason. If one of my co-workers/neighbours ever ask about my political opinions, you bet your ASCIIs that I'd reservedly express approval of our government's great efforts to protect us. I'm the kind of person that enjoys playing devil's advocate, and I've taken my fair share of pro-communism, pro-liberterian, and absolute pacifism stances (and everything in-between) -- but it was all online. I hide behind my anonymity as a matter of personal policy.
epoxyhockey 13y ago
I try to personalize the situation. Government officials are not magical unicorns. They are people like you and me. People, like your next door neighbor. What if your next door neighbor could scan through your email, credit card purchases and call transcripts without your knowledge? Now imagine that they actually are doing so right now.
- XorNot 13y ago
  But its not your next door neighbour. There's a whole system in place to make sure it's not your next door neighbour, and in fact we generally accept as a society that preventing people's social groups gathering information on each other largely solves problems with privacy (provided we also don't allow people to rebroadcast things as they please). How much do you care about the credit card purchases of someone you've never met, who lives on the other side of the country, and who you wouldn't recognize the face off if you saw them? How much of your internet posting is done on the exact same assumption?
  - epoxyhockey 13y ago
    But its not your next door neighbour Well, if you live in the Washington DC area, the chance substantially increases. ;-) Though, if you have ever been in a position to gain a glimpse into strangers' behavior, be it what bars/pubs they frequent, how they make income on the side, what stocks they trade, or any number of not widely publicized tricks-of-a-trade, I can guarantee you that you would use that knowledge for your own gain and/or entertainment. Your use of that information is untraceable, and in the very worst case can be plausibly denied.
    - XorNot 13y ago
      But it's not untraceable. There's a reason the LOVEINT cases at the NSA were found: because the NSA goes looking for them in a pretty draconian way. The technical capability to do something doesn't mean you have the legal capability to use it or broadcast it and a good deal of your post is starting to hint at quasi-illegal activity in the first place.

My casual surveys of friends and acquaintances is depressing. Most "don't have anything to hide", and don't feel threatened by these developments.

by pstuart 13y ago

My casual surveys of friends and acquaintances is depressing. Most "don't have anything to hide", and don't feel threatened by these developments.

dmix 13y ago

Most people put up with overt racism and sexism in American society for > century. I wouldn't count on the average persons sentiment to be indicative of what is moral or correct at this moment in society, or more importantly what is worth fighting to fix. Whereas politicians do. Politicians only follow the pack, much after the movement towards some social progress has been well underway by pioneering citizens for a long period of time.

ihsw 13y ago

In China it's really risky to tell your true opinion to friends because you don't know who is working for the Government. In East Germany (during the Cold War) it was similarly risky to tell your true opinion for the same reason. If one of my co-workers/neighbours ever ask about my political opinions, you bet your ASCIIs that I'd reservedly express approval of our government's great efforts to protect us. I'm the kind of person that enjoys playing devil's advocate, and I've taken my fair share of pro-communism, pro-liberterian, and absolute pacifism stances (and everything in-between) -- but it was all online. I hide behind my anonymity as a matter of personal policy.

epoxyhockey 13y ago

I try to personalize the situation. Government officials are not magical unicorns. They are people like you and me. People, like your next door neighbor. What if your next door neighbor could scan through your email, credit card purchases and call transcripts without your knowledge? Now imagine that they actually are doing so right now.

XorNot 13y ago
But its not your next door neighbour. There's a whole system in place to make sure it's not your next door neighbour, and in fact we generally accept as a society that preventing people's social groups gathering information on each other largely solves problems with privacy (provided we also don't allow people to rebroadcast things as they please). How much do you care about the credit card purchases of someone you've never met, who lives on the other side of the country, and who you wouldn't recognize the face off if you saw them? How much of your internet posting is done on the exact same assumption?
- epoxyhockey 13y ago
  But its not your next door neighbour Well, if you live in the Washington DC area, the chance substantially increases. ;-) Though, if you have ever been in a position to gain a glimpse into strangers' behavior, be it what bars/pubs they frequent, how they make income on the side, what stocks they trade, or any number of not widely publicized tricks-of-a-trade, I can guarantee you that you would use that knowledge for your own gain and/or entertainment. Your use of that information is untraceable, and in the very worst case can be plausibly denied.
  - XorNot 13y ago
    But it's not untraceable. There's a reason the LOVEINT cases at the NSA were found: because the NSA goes looking for them in a pretty draconian way. The technical capability to do something doesn't mean you have the legal capability to use it or broadcast it and a good deal of your post is starting to hint at quasi-illegal activity in the first place.