4 ms·

>> The way to prevent this is to maximize the control of the people over the government Oh? How do we do that? We all know a civilized discussion is much more

>> The way to prevent this is to maximize the control of the people over the government Oh? How do we do that? We all know a civilized discussion is much more persuasive than cursing and raging, right? -I guess we need to write respectful, eloquent letters to our "representatives", and ask them to pretty-please be less corrupt and keep their campaign promises? >> make sure that no unaccountable-to-the-people entity gets too much power An entity that's not accountable to the people, huh? -Such as, the government itself? Or how much sway do you hold over the secret FISA "courts"? What about how your tax money is spent? >> the people must take an aggressive stance against rent-seeking monopolists Oh? What about the ultimate monopoly, the government? Or is there some other entity that decides what happens in a country, what's allowed and what's forbidden?

leot 13y ago
Let's see: what do we have in the world, in actual reality, when considering your comments? What do we know (from actual examples of things that really happen) when it comes to the potential for a government to be accountable to its citizens? In the actual world that we live in, do we have democracies that function pretty darn well? Yes (all of Scandinavia, Iceland, Switzerland). In other parts of the world, do we have corporate monopolies (or near-monopolies) with noxious outsized influence? Most definitely yes (e.g., retroactive copyright extensions in the U.S.). If you were to pick a country to be born into, where your household was picked completely at random, would you rather be born in the U.S. or in a country in Scandinavia? In which country do you believe you would find yourself most empowered viz. society and its governance?
- anoncowherd 13y ago
  >> What do we know (from actual examples of things that really happen) when it comes to the potential for a government to be accountable to its citizens? Well, we know from the history of the human race that people have pretty much always been ruled by some evil scumbags. Today is no exception. The scumbags come and go, but rule remains. As for accountability.. I'm not sure even revolutions really count. How many times has been some insane, evil dictator been forcefully de-throned, only to get replaced by someone just as shitty, or even worse? How accountable was Stalin to "his" citizens? -Hitler? Mao? Pol Pot? .. and so on. History is full of monsters and genocides, and even if some dictator gets killed in a revolution after he's tortured people for, say, 20 - 70 years, so fucking what? Is that "accountability"? >> In the actual world that we live in, do we have democracies that function pretty darn well? Yes (all of Scandinavia, Iceland, Switzerland). You have to realize that there's corruption and secret dealings behind the scenes everywhere. In every country. I'm Finnish myself, and Finland is no exception. The corruption here is not as blatant as in Mexico or whatever, but it's there. >> would you rather be born in the U.S. or in a country in Scandinavia? In which country do you believe you would find yourself most empowered viz. society and its governance? I'm not empowered by "governance" - I'm enslaved by it, just like everyone else on earth.

leot 13y ago

Let's see: what do we have in the world, in actual reality, when considering your comments? What do we know (from actual examples of things that really happen) when it comes to the potential for a government to be accountable to its citizens? In the actual world that we live in, do we have democracies that function pretty darn well? Yes (all of Scandinavia, Iceland, Switzerland). In other parts of the world, do we have corporate monopolies (or near-monopolies) with noxious outsized influence? Most definitely yes (e.g., retroactive copyright extensions in the U.S.). If you were to pick a country to be born into, where your household was picked completely at random, would you rather be born in the U.S. or in a country in Scandinavia? In which country do you believe you would find yourself most empowered viz. society and its governance?

anoncowherd 13y ago
>> What do we know (from actual examples of things that really happen) when it comes to the potential for a government to be accountable to its citizens? Well, we know from the history of the human race that people have pretty much always been ruled by some evil scumbags. Today is no exception. The scumbags come and go, but rule remains. As for accountability.. I'm not sure even revolutions really count. How many times has been some insane, evil dictator been forcefully de-throned, only to get replaced by someone just as shitty, or even worse? How accountable was Stalin to "his" citizens? -Hitler? Mao? Pol Pot? .. and so on. History is full of monsters and genocides, and even if some dictator gets killed in a revolution after he's tortured people for, say, 20 - 70 years, so fucking what? Is that "accountability"? >> In the actual world that we live in, do we have democracies that function pretty darn well? Yes (all of Scandinavia, Iceland, Switzerland). You have to realize that there's corruption and secret dealings behind the scenes everywhere. In every country. I'm Finnish myself, and Finland is no exception. The corruption here is not as blatant as in Mexico or whatever, but it's there. >> would you rather be born in the U.S. or in a country in Scandinavia? In which country do you believe you would find yourself most empowered viz. society and its governance? I'm not empowered by "governance" - I'm enslaved by it, just like everyone else on earth.