6 ms·

Hardly a definitive proof that it's all just biology. I'd scale it back, and draw the conclusions more conservatively. Along the lines of 'employment statistic

Hardly a definitive proof that it's all just biology. I'd scale it back, and draw the conclusions more conservatively. Along the lines of 'employment statistics don't necessarily imply discrimination'. Just because twitter's board is mostly male, doesn't necessarily mean that being male was a requirement. No one would argue that truck drivers are mostly men due to hiring policies.

arrrg 13y ago
No, but people would argue that mostly men are truck drivers due to rigid gender roles and strict gender policing of the patriarchy.
- tomp 13y ago
  Do you have any statistics/reasoning that support this argument? I'd say it's simply because it's a crappy, low-paying, exhausting job with too many working hours, which not many people want. Men usually get such jobs.
  - arrrg 13y ago
    But why do they get such jobs? Because of rigid gender roles that force them to be a certain way. What’s your alternative explanation?
    - tomp 13y ago
      Because there aren't any other jobs. The real question is, though, why don't the women get/take such jobs. I think the answer is a mixture of the following: (1) they are worse at such jobs than men (physically weaker and menstruating, which I assume might matter for a job like truck-driving), (2) (I assume) women get more government help, because they are more often (single) mothers and (3) women can play on other qualities (more social, better caregivers, more attractive, less dangerous) that allows them to get other jobs (nanny, waitress, secretary, ...).
      - arrrg 13y ago
        And this power imbalance between workers and employers is terrible. Yeah, all pretty standard socialist stuff I’m a huge fanboy of. It’s of course not only gender roles that play a role here. You reasons are pretty bullshitty, so I don’t think I ever want to talk to you again. Bye!
        tomp 13y ago
        Don't shoot the messenger :) These are more guesses than opinions, so if you have any better ideas, shoot!
  - shriya 13y ago
    Teaching is a low-paying job with too many working hours. Women work at places like Target, Wal Mart, and McDonalds which are not exactly known for how intellectually stimulating and high-paying they are. This is a weak argument. People who are uneducated and/or have life circumstances that force them into low paying crappy jobs are the people who end up with those...women, men, white people, black people, asian people...people in general.
- asdasf 13y ago
  Only a very tiny number of people would argue that.
  - arrrg 13y ago
    Actually, that argument is pretty universal. Even MRAs are sort of making that argument, only they claim the reason is some sort of weird feminist conspiracy, something that really makes no sense at all. I would consider the culture of working oneself to death generally harmful and strictly policed gender roles can play a very dangerous and enforcing role there.
    - asdasf 13y ago
      You can "actually" all you want, but it doesn't change reality. The vast majority of people are neither feminists nor MRAs. Even if the absurdity of you trying to equate two different positions were overlooked, the total of both of those groups is still a minority, not anywhere even remotely close to universal. On a side note, you aren't helping the image of feminism by bringing up MRAs out of nowhere just to deliberately present the worlds laziest strawman on their behalf, so you can dismiss it.
      - arrrg 13y ago
        Oh, look! Who’s a good boy and learned all their logical fallacies! You! Adorable!
- johngalt 13y ago
  I'm sure someone would argue that it's the Illuminati. That doesn't make it a rational argument.
  - arrrg 13y ago
    This is not a fucking conspiracy theory. In our society gender roles are strictly enforced and policed. It has gotten better during the last few decades (though there have also been some regressions) but it’s still pretty bad.
- jacknews 13y ago
  Or more simply that women simply don't find the idea of sitting alone in a cab for hours on end, possibly not showering for days at a time, constantly sleeping in strange places (maybe in the truck) to be an attractive career proposition.

arrrg 13y ago

No, but people would argue that mostly men are truck drivers due to rigid gender roles and strict gender policing of the patriarchy.

tomp 13y ago
Do you have any statistics/reasoning that support this argument? I'd say it's simply because it's a crappy, low-paying, exhausting job with too many working hours, which not many people want. Men usually get such jobs.
- arrrg 13y ago
  But why do they get such jobs? Because of rigid gender roles that force them to be a certain way. What’s your alternative explanation?
  - tomp 13y ago
    Because there aren't any other jobs. The real question is, though, why don't the women get/take such jobs. I think the answer is a mixture of the following: (1) they are worse at such jobs than men (physically weaker and menstruating, which I assume might matter for a job like truck-driving), (2) (I assume) women get more government help, because they are more often (single) mothers and (3) women can play on other qualities (more social, better caregivers, more attractive, less dangerous) that allows them to get other jobs (nanny, waitress, secretary, ...).
    - arrrg 13y ago
      And this power imbalance between workers and employers is terrible. Yeah, all pretty standard socialist stuff I’m a huge fanboy of. It’s of course not only gender roles that play a role here. You reasons are pretty bullshitty, so I don’t think I ever want to talk to you again. Bye!
      - tomp 13y ago
        Don't shoot the messenger :) These are more guesses than opinions, so if you have any better ideas, shoot!
- shriya 13y ago
  Teaching is a low-paying job with too many working hours. Women work at places like Target, Wal Mart, and McDonalds which are not exactly known for how intellectually stimulating and high-paying they are. This is a weak argument. People who are uneducated and/or have life circumstances that force them into low paying crappy jobs are the people who end up with those...women, men, white people, black people, asian people...people in general.
asdasf 13y ago
Only a very tiny number of people would argue that.
- arrrg 13y ago
  Actually, that argument is pretty universal. Even MRAs are sort of making that argument, only they claim the reason is some sort of weird feminist conspiracy, something that really makes no sense at all. I would consider the culture of working oneself to death generally harmful and strictly policed gender roles can play a very dangerous and enforcing role there.
  - asdasf 13y ago
    You can "actually" all you want, but it doesn't change reality. The vast majority of people are neither feminists nor MRAs. Even if the absurdity of you trying to equate two different positions were overlooked, the total of both of those groups is still a minority, not anywhere even remotely close to universal. On a side note, you aren't helping the image of feminism by bringing up MRAs out of nowhere just to deliberately present the worlds laziest strawman on their behalf, so you can dismiss it.
    - arrrg 13y ago
      Oh, look! Who’s a good boy and learned all their logical fallacies! You! Adorable!
johngalt 13y ago
I'm sure someone would argue that it's the Illuminati. That doesn't make it a rational argument.
- arrrg 13y ago
  This is not a fucking conspiracy theory. In our society gender roles are strictly enforced and policed. It has gotten better during the last few decades (though there have also been some regressions) but it’s still pretty bad.
jacknews 13y ago
Or more simply that women simply don't find the idea of sitting alone in a cab for hours on end, possibly not showering for days at a time, constantly sleeping in strange places (maybe in the truck) to be an attractive career proposition.