4 ms·

I would appreciate if you wouldn't cite the 'world socialist website - Published by the International Committee of the Fourth International' as a reputable sour

by thomasz 13y ago

I would appreciate if you wouldn't cite the 'world socialist website - Published by the International Committee of the Fourth International' as a reputable source. Some of their articles are surprisingly good, but it's still the publication of an obscure trotzkyist sect.

cstross 13y ago
What's your problem with Trotskyite news sources? I assume most folks here are smart enough to evaluate any given news site on the basis of its accuracy and to differentiate between editorial bias and factual incorrectness. If you really can't bear to see news and opinions from sources you personally disagree with, how are you ever going to test your opinions?
- nols 13y ago
  That's not really how it works, you can't cite a source and then have people evaluate it on its accuracy. We don't know enough to know the accuracy, that's why you used a citation. A publication's reputation is what people use as a benchmark for its accuracy. There are scientific studies saying smoking isn't harmful, and it's totally a coincidence they're funded by tobacco companies. That's why a source's reputation is important.
- thomasz 13y ago
  Well, one problem is that publications like the wsws are not news in the strict sense. They do not have the staff and the founding that's necessary to engage in traditional reporting. What those publications are doing is to interpret secondary sources. The article in question does little else than showing us the authors reactions after watching [0]. Some people might find this reaction of the "International Committee of the Fourth International" interesting, but I guess it's safe to say that most are not. About most people here being able to evaluate the accuracy of those sites: That's the problem with posting links like that. People read it, look at the header and dismiss the whole thing as completely blown out of proportions, which sadly isn't true this time. [0] http://www.sbs.com.au/dateline/story/about/id/601700/n/manus-whistleblower http://www.sbs.com.au/dateline/story/about/id/601700/n/manus...
  - gress 13y ago
    How is that different from mainstream news outlets publishing articles sourced from Reuters or AP?
    - aet 13y ago
      Reuters and AP are reputable and have reporters on the ground. AP has won 50+ Pulitzer prizes. See http://www.ap.org/company/pulitzers http://www.ap.org/company/pulitzers.
      - gress 13y ago
        That doesn't address the point - many mainstream 'news' outlets work by rewriting stories syndicated from Reuters and AP - not by having their own reporters. The comment I was responding to was attacking the wsws for not being 'news' because it doesn't have it's own reporters. It's perfectly reasonable to criticize it for having a political stance that you don't credit, but I don't see a case for somehow categorizing it as 'not news' when its practices are the same as many traditional news outlets, just with a less mainstream perspective. Note: I'm not supporting whatever wsws's stance might be - I'm just pointing out that much of mainstream news is similar in how it operates.
        aet 13y ago
        I actually have no problem with people citing the World Socialist Website. That being said, the WSWS offers "Marxist analysis" of the news whereas Reuters and AP, although they may offer analysis, focus on objective reporting of the facts as opposed to analysis. Take a look at Reuters "trust principles" on their website. One principle is: "That Thomson Reuters shall supply unbiased and reliable news services to newspapers, news agencies, broadcasters and other media subscribers and to businesses governments, institutions, individuals and others with whom Thomson Reuters has or may have contracts." Now, consider the mission of the WSWS: "The standpoint of this web site is one of revolutionary opposition to the capitalist market system. Its aim is the establishment of world socialism." I think it is clear why AP and Reuters citations will be more widely accepted than sources that are inclined to political bias and activism.
bausson 13y ago
Maybe publications with enough funding are not 'strict' either. They are some always interest at play. Well funded publications are either government-backed (in some communist/socialist countries), which might mean unfair treatment of some news, or corporation (or corporation-backed), which means a stance on some subjects (let's say:liberalism) that isn't exactly fair either. The best (or, some might say, only) way to get news is to get it from different sources, which preferably does not share the same point of view.
enraged_camel 13y ago
In light of an article about prejudice, did you mean this comment to be ironic, or...?

by thomasz 13y ago

cstross 13y ago

What's your problem with Trotskyite news sources? I assume most folks here are smart enough to evaluate any given news site on the basis of its accuracy and to differentiate between editorial bias and factual incorrectness. If you really can't bear to see news and opinions from sources you personally disagree with, how are you ever going to test your opinions?

nols 13y ago
That's not really how it works, you can't cite a source and then have people evaluate it on its accuracy. We don't know enough to know the accuracy, that's why you used a citation. A publication's reputation is what people use as a benchmark for its accuracy. There are scientific studies saying smoking isn't harmful, and it's totally a coincidence they're funded by tobacco companies. That's why a source's reputation is important.
thomasz 13y ago
Well, one problem is that publications like the wsws are not news in the strict sense. They do not have the staff and the founding that's necessary to engage in traditional reporting. What those publications are doing is to interpret secondary sources. The article in question does little else than showing us the authors reactions after watching [0]. Some people might find this reaction of the "International Committee of the Fourth International" interesting, but I guess it's safe to say that most are not. About most people here being able to evaluate the accuracy of those sites: That's the problem with posting links like that. People read it, look at the header and dismiss the whole thing as completely blown out of proportions, which sadly isn't true this time. [0] http://www.sbs.com.au/dateline/story/about/id/601700/n/manus-whistleblower http://www.sbs.com.au/dateline/story/about/id/601700/n/manus...
- gress 13y ago
  How is that different from mainstream news outlets publishing articles sourced from Reuters or AP?
  - aet 13y ago
    Reuters and AP are reputable and have reporters on the ground. AP has won 50+ Pulitzer prizes. See http://www.ap.org/company/pulitzers http://www.ap.org/company/pulitzers.
    - gress 13y ago
      That doesn't address the point - many mainstream 'news' outlets work by rewriting stories syndicated from Reuters and AP - not by having their own reporters. The comment I was responding to was attacking the wsws for not being 'news' because it doesn't have it's own reporters. It's perfectly reasonable to criticize it for having a political stance that you don't credit, but I don't see a case for somehow categorizing it as 'not news' when its practices are the same as many traditional news outlets, just with a less mainstream perspective. Note: I'm not supporting whatever wsws's stance might be - I'm just pointing out that much of mainstream news is similar in how it operates.
      - aet 13y ago
        I actually have no problem with people citing the World Socialist Website. That being said, the WSWS offers "Marxist analysis" of the news whereas Reuters and AP, although they may offer analysis, focus on objective reporting of the facts as opposed to analysis. Take a look at Reuters "trust principles" on their website. One principle is: "That Thomson Reuters shall supply unbiased and reliable news services to newspapers, news agencies, broadcasters and other media subscribers and to businesses governments, institutions, individuals and others with whom Thomson Reuters has or may have contracts." Now, consider the mission of the WSWS: "The standpoint of this web site is one of revolutionary opposition to the capitalist market system. Its aim is the establishment of world socialism." I think it is clear why AP and Reuters citations will be more widely accepted than sources that are inclined to political bias and activism.

bausson 13y ago

Maybe publications with enough funding are not 'strict' either. They are some always interest at play. Well funded publications are either government-backed (in some communist/socialist countries), which might mean unfair treatment of some news, or corporation (or corporation-backed), which means a stance on some subjects (let's say:liberalism) that isn't exactly fair either. The best (or, some might say, only) way to get news is to get it from different sources, which preferably does not share the same point of view.

enraged_camel 13y ago

In light of an article about prejudice, did you mean this comment to be ironic, or...?