6 ms·

> From what I've read, the Israelis make border checks less problematic. It is hard to scale their solutions to US? The Israelis are clear that what they do is

by eshvk 13y ago

> From what I've read, the Israelis make border checks less problematic. It is hard to scale their solutions to US? The Israelis are clear that what they do is racial profiling. Kind of hard to pay lip service to equality and all that bull shit and still just harass only brown people, isn't it?

cema 13y ago
Many Israelies are brown too. They do profile, but not quite this way.
- eshvk 13y ago
  You are being pedantic here. Yes, I am aware of the fact that Jewish people vary and have a wide spectrum of physical appearances. Going by their definition that they are a race, the fact that people who either by virtue of having the wrong name, or wrong religion or potential links to the Arab world are flagged off and scrutinized more carefully is profiling.
  - cema 13y ago
    You have seemingly replaced "Israelis" with "Jewish people" whereas about 20% of Israelis are not Jewish. I think if we discuss profiling it is important to see what kind of profiling, specifically, is applied, its reasons and consequences.
    - eshvk 13y ago
      And you think those non jewish Israelis (mostly Arab) are treated as anything but second class citizens. Sorry, I am not the greatest critic of Israel and probably at some level think that they are pretty damn effective at what they do. However, go open up any report on how those people are discriminated against on a day to day basis.
      - cema 13y ago
        Yes, they are (albeit less than many people think, and much less than in the past, but still there is a long road ahead for achieving equal treatment). This, however, is tangential. The point of discussion is profiling, which may or may not be discriminatory.
blisterpeanuts 13y ago
This is misinformation in the extreme. 60% of Israeli Jews are from Arab countries, or their parents and grandparents were, and they are very similar in appearance to Arabs. There are also thousands of Ethiopian Jews with even darker skin. The European Jews with fair skin constitute only a part of the population, maybe half or less than half (there is a lot of intermarriage). Israeli border agents can't do racial profiling; that would be pointless if not counter-productive. What they do is to very carefully, intelligently interrogate each person entering the country, and they meticulously go through each person's luggage (particularly when boarding a plane). Often, one person will sit there, asking you the usual questions - where are you from, what do you plan to do here, etc., while another person sits off to the side, staring at you intensely and studying your every reaction. They are trained to spot telltale signs of lying, nervousness, inconsistency, and they're very good at it. They have to be. To them, it's a matter of life or death. The U.S. might get one or two terrorists in a million trying to enter the country; the Israelis are literally surrounded by a sea of people wishing them ill will. The U.S. could learn something from Israeli security, naturally. I understand the Germans are also very good at it. The problems run pretty deep; U.S. agencies (or their overseers in the Cabinet or the Congress) are headed by political appointees who don't always have sufficient experience or aptitude to handle the job. Our whole INS and border control systems need an overhaul, that's for sure. The world has shrunk and if someone considers it too difficult to visit here, they'll just teleconference, go tour a different country, start their business elsewhere. We are shooting ourselves in the foot.
- lewaldman 13y ago
  > 60% of Israeli Jews are from Arab countries, or their parents and grandparents were, and they are very similar in appearance to Arabs Sorry, but you are wrong regarding the impossibility of do a "race" profiling. I'm a Jew and lived for 6 year in Israel. You can spot in a fraction of a second an arab jew from an arab muslin, from an arab christian. They can look alike phisicaly, but the behavior, cloths, accents, body expression, etc... Are completely diferent.
  - blisterpeanuts 13y ago

by eshvk 13y ago

cema 13y ago

Many Israelies are brown too. They do profile, but not quite this way.

eshvk 13y ago
You are being pedantic here. Yes, I am aware of the fact that Jewish people vary and have a wide spectrum of physical appearances. Going by their definition that they are a race, the fact that people who either by virtue of having the wrong name, or wrong religion or potential links to the Arab world are flagged off and scrutinized more carefully is profiling.
- cema 13y ago
  You have seemingly replaced "Israelis" with "Jewish people" whereas about 20% of Israelis are not Jewish. I think if we discuss profiling it is important to see what kind of profiling, specifically, is applied, its reasons and consequences.
  - eshvk 13y ago
    And you think those non jewish Israelis (mostly Arab) are treated as anything but second class citizens. Sorry, I am not the greatest critic of Israel and probably at some level think that they are pretty damn effective at what they do. However, go open up any report on how those people are discriminated against on a day to day basis.
    - cema 13y ago
      Yes, they are (albeit less than many people think, and much less than in the past, but still there is a long road ahead for achieving equal treatment). This, however, is tangential. The point of discussion is profiling, which may or may not be discriminatory.

blisterpeanuts 13y ago

This is misinformation in the extreme. 60% of Israeli Jews are from Arab countries, or their parents and grandparents were, and they are very similar in appearance to Arabs. There are also thousands of Ethiopian Jews with even darker skin. The European Jews with fair skin constitute only a part of the population, maybe half or less than half (there is a lot of intermarriage). Israeli border agents can't do racial profiling; that would be pointless if not counter-productive. What they do is to very carefully, intelligently interrogate each person entering the country, and they meticulously go through each person's luggage (particularly when boarding a plane). Often, one person will sit there, asking you the usual questions - where are you from, what do you plan to do here, etc., while another person sits off to the side, staring at you intensely and studying your every reaction. They are trained to spot telltale signs of lying, nervousness, inconsistency, and they're very good at it. They have to be. To them, it's a matter of life or death. The U.S. might get one or two terrorists in a million trying to enter the country; the Israelis are literally surrounded by a sea of people wishing them ill will. The U.S. could learn something from Israeli security, naturally. I understand the Germans are also very good at it. The problems run pretty deep; U.S. agencies (or their overseers in the Cabinet or the Congress) are headed by political appointees who don't always have sufficient experience or aptitude to handle the job. Our whole INS and border control systems need an overhaul, that's for sure. The world has shrunk and if someone considers it too difficult to visit here, they'll just teleconference, go tour a different country, start their business elsewhere. We are shooting ourselves in the foot.

lewaldman 13y ago
> 60% of Israeli Jews are from Arab countries, or their parents and grandparents were, and they are very similar in appearance to Arabs Sorry, but you are wrong regarding the impossibility of do a "race" profiling. I'm a Jew and lived for 6 year in Israel. You can spot in a fraction of a second an arab jew from an arab muslin, from an arab christian. They can look alike phisicaly, but the behavior, cloths, accents, body expression, etc... Are completely diferent.
- blisterpeanuts 13y ago