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I don't think it's fair to paint all of this as somehow originating with the US. This country doesn't exist in a vacuum and it is shaped by the political and e

by Nrsolis 13y ago

I don't think it's fair to paint all of this as somehow originating with the US. This country doesn't exist in a vacuum and it is shaped by the political and economic forces that surround it. I think people forget that this nation is constantly under some form of "attack" by groups (nation-state and otherwise) who hope to destabilize it or mitigate the power it can wield. I'm an American and I'm fiercely proud of this country. We screw up all the time, but we've been able to manage a peaceful transition of power and somehow manage to find our way in a difficult and challenging world. I think it's lost on MANY people who are not citizens or residents that the USA is HUGE, politically diverse, and nearly as varied in customs, socioeconomics, and population as Europe. You can even stretch that to language in some parts of the USA. Try and get around South Miami without at least a smattering of Spanish language ability. Our legal system has it's flaws. You can definitely find examples of miscarriages of justice without too much trouble. Our bureaucracy is sometimes incomprehensible. Our tax systems are strange and often counterproductive. What is often missing is that all of these things are the result of a vigorous political experiment in self-government. Below the federal government, there are a whole slew of state, regional, city, town, village, and county governments that have wide latitude to set their own laws and practices. In certain counties in the USA, it's still illegal to buy alcohol. In other counties, you can buy alcohol at a DRIVE THRU. All of these variations are a result of people determining for themselves which laws they'll live under. It's closer to say that the USA is filled with many many cooperating democracies. Just remember that in this country, you can still go from dirt-floor poor (not an exaggeration) to billionaire in the span of a single lifetime. We're far from perfect, but it's the recognition that we're trying to perfect this country that makes us unique and special.

bighi 13y ago
Your country is constantly under attack? It's as varied in culture and population as Europe? You can go from poor to billionaire? Dude, I surely want to smoke what you're smoking.
- Nrsolis 13y ago
  Please level up on your reading comprehension and see if you care to reframe your criticism. And Lloyd Blankfein grew up in a housing project in Brooklyn. In fact, the same housing project that Jay-Z did. It turns out that where hard work and preparation meet opportunity, there is luck to be won. I was born here as the child of two lower-class immigrant parents from different parts of the globe. Now I'm a one percenter. My wife grew up in a single parent household from the age of three, moved to NYC with $300 20 years ago and is also a wildly successful person. Rags to riches is not a fairy tale in the USA. It DOES happen but not without lots of hard work. Luck plays a part, but you'd be AMAZED at how many people with the good fortune to be US citizens can't manage to even get out of bed in the morning to take advantage of the amazing opportunities here.
  - VexXtreme 13y ago
    So Europe is shitty because your mom almost got killed by her government? How about tens of millions of native Americans who were systematically exterminated by their government? While America was founded on some really great and unique ideas and concepts (your declaration of independence comes to mind), the execution is less than stellar. That in and of itself wouldn't be a problem if you wouldn't claim that you're somehow better and more exceptional than everyone else. You don't believe there aren't other places in the world where people go from rags to riches on daily basis and where opportunities are abound? You think the rest of the world lives in caves and mud houses? The best way to remedy that would be to get a passport and get out more.
    - Nrsolis 13y ago
      Just an FYI if you can stand to look past your own prejudice and ill-informed speculation: 1. I've lived (and worked) overseas in both Europe and the Middle East. 2. I've visited and spent great deals of time in South America, Central America. I haven't been to Asia but that's been mainly a function of time than opportunity. That'll probably change next year with a trip to Singapore. 3. I've run out of pages in my passport, buddy. I'm likely better travelled than you are. Last month, I did three transatlantic crossings back to back. I've driven from Paris to Milan in a 5-series. I was at the Berlin Wall while there was still a Berlin Wall and I've been back to see it's disappearance. I've even got a picture of myself in East Germany from BEFORE the wall came down. Before you go off talking trash about how dumb and untravelled Americans are, you might consider that the person on the other end of that screen you live your life on had a Passport and exposure to the world before you were born.
DanBC 13y ago
> and nearly as varied in customs, socioeconomics, and population as Europe. You can even stretch that to language in some parts of the USA. Try and get around South Miami without at least a smattering of Spanish language ability. 40 European languages: http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/european_languages/languages/index.shtml http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/european_languages/languages/... (That's just for starters.) In my rural county in England we have something like 120 different languages spoken by people as their first language. Some of those are from historic ties to England - such as some of the Indian languages, with languages merging into English. (Pyjama, Bungalow, Juggernaut etc etc). > I think people forget that this nation is constantly under some form of "attack" by groups (nation-state and otherwise) Really? How many mainland terrorist attacks have you had? Because Europe has had a wide range of different separatist, leftist, anarchist, right-wing, etc groups setting off bombs and killing people. EDIT: you can still go from dirt-floor poor (not an exaggeration) to billionaire in the span of a single lifetime. Yes, I can go and buy a lottery ticket and win millions with a 1 in 14 million chance. The truth is that we could walk into a maternity ward in the US and predict with reasonable accuracy the children who will be poor and on drugs or in prison, and the children who will not be poor.
- Nrsolis 13y ago
  I think you're deliberately misunderstanding me. And that's fine. I'm definitely detecting a bunch of do-as-I-say type of sentiment. But my mother fled a country (her European home country and the country of her birth) that tried to kill her and every one like her. SO...please pardon me if I don't agree to entertain your Europe is oh-so-much-better than the US diatribe. If one persons difficult experience can indict a whole country of 300m people, well...what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
  - andyjohnson0 13y ago
    "pardon me if I don't agree to entertain your Europe is oh-so-much-better than the US diatribe" Read the words again. None of DanBC's comments can be construed as a belief that Europe (or anywhere else) is better than the USA. If Europe has more languages than the US, for example, then that doesn't make Europe better in any meaningful sense. What (it seems to me) he's saying is that the US is less special and unique than you might think. Not less special to you, but less special on an objective, global scale. From my point of view (British, European), belief in American Exceptionalism has always seemed a little deluded. Many countries around the world have democracy, wealth creation, etc. Many of them are trying to improve (though maybe not "perfect") their society. On the whole, though, they just don't make so much noise about it.
w_t_payne 13y ago
Good point. It is certainly true that the US is an absolutely, stupendously, incomprehensibly huge place; with a mind-bending amount of variety and differentiation. I loved living there for the (short) period that I did. Still not going back.

by Nrsolis 13y ago

bighi 13y ago

Your country is constantly under attack? It's as varied in culture and population as Europe? You can go from poor to billionaire? Dude, I surely want to smoke what you're smoking.

Nrsolis 13y ago
Please level up on your reading comprehension and see if you care to reframe your criticism. And Lloyd Blankfein grew up in a housing project in Brooklyn. In fact, the same housing project that Jay-Z did. It turns out that where hard work and preparation meet opportunity, there is luck to be won. I was born here as the child of two lower-class immigrant parents from different parts of the globe. Now I'm a one percenter. My wife grew up in a single parent household from the age of three, moved to NYC with $300 20 years ago and is also a wildly successful person. Rags to riches is not a fairy tale in the USA. It DOES happen but not without lots of hard work. Luck plays a part, but you'd be AMAZED at how many people with the good fortune to be US citizens can't manage to even get out of bed in the morning to take advantage of the amazing opportunities here.
- VexXtreme 13y ago
  So Europe is shitty because your mom almost got killed by her government? How about tens of millions of native Americans who were systematically exterminated by their government? While America was founded on some really great and unique ideas and concepts (your declaration of independence comes to mind), the execution is less than stellar. That in and of itself wouldn't be a problem if you wouldn't claim that you're somehow better and more exceptional than everyone else. You don't believe there aren't other places in the world where people go from rags to riches on daily basis and where opportunities are abound? You think the rest of the world lives in caves and mud houses? The best way to remedy that would be to get a passport and get out more.
  - Nrsolis 13y ago
    Just an FYI if you can stand to look past your own prejudice and ill-informed speculation: 1. I've lived (and worked) overseas in both Europe and the Middle East. 2. I've visited and spent great deals of time in South America, Central America. I haven't been to Asia but that's been mainly a function of time than opportunity. That'll probably change next year with a trip to Singapore. 3. I've run out of pages in my passport, buddy. I'm likely better travelled than you are. Last month, I did three transatlantic crossings back to back. I've driven from Paris to Milan in a 5-series. I was at the Berlin Wall while there was still a Berlin Wall and I've been back to see it's disappearance. I've even got a picture of myself in East Germany from BEFORE the wall came down. Before you go off talking trash about how dumb and untravelled Americans are, you might consider that the person on the other end of that screen you live your life on had a Passport and exposure to the world before you were born.

DanBC 13y ago

> and nearly as varied in customs, socioeconomics, and population as Europe. You can even stretch that to language in some parts of the USA. Try and get around South Miami without at least a smattering of Spanish language ability. 40 European languages: http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/european_languages/languages/index.shtml http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/european_languages/languages/... (That's just for starters.) In my rural county in England we have something like 120 different languages spoken by people as their first language. Some of those are from historic ties to England - such as some of the Indian languages, with languages merging into English. (Pyjama, Bungalow, Juggernaut etc etc). > I think people forget that this nation is constantly under some form of "attack" by groups (nation-state and otherwise) Really? How many mainland terrorist attacks have you had? Because Europe has had a wide range of different separatist, leftist, anarchist, right-wing, etc groups setting off bombs and killing people. EDIT: you can still go from dirt-floor poor (not an exaggeration) to billionaire in the span of a single lifetime. Yes, I can go and buy a lottery ticket and win millions with a 1 in 14 million chance. The truth is that we could walk into a maternity ward in the US and predict with reasonable accuracy the children who will be poor and on drugs or in prison, and the children who will not be poor.

Nrsolis 13y ago
I think you're deliberately misunderstanding me. And that's fine. I'm definitely detecting a bunch of do-as-I-say type of sentiment. But my mother fled a country (her European home country and the country of her birth) that tried to kill her and every one like her. SO...please pardon me if I don't agree to entertain your Europe is oh-so-much-better than the US diatribe. If one persons difficult experience can indict a whole country of 300m people, well...what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
- andyjohnson0 13y ago
  "pardon me if I don't agree to entertain your Europe is oh-so-much-better than the US diatribe" Read the words again. None of DanBC's comments can be construed as a belief that Europe (or anywhere else) is better than the USA. If Europe has more languages than the US, for example, then that doesn't make Europe better in any meaningful sense. What (it seems to me) he's saying is that the US is less special and unique than you might think. Not less special to you, but less special on an objective, global scale. From my point of view (British, European), belief in American Exceptionalism has always seemed a little deluded. Many countries around the world have democracy, wealth creation, etc. Many of them are trying to improve (though maybe not "perfect") their society. On the whole, though, they just don't make so much noise about it.

w_t_payne 13y ago

Good point. It is certainly true that the US is an absolutely, stupendously, incomprehensibly huge place; with a mind-bending amount of variety and differentiation. I loved living there for the (short) period that I did. Still not going back.