5 ms·

US immigration is broken on so many levels. A lot of our immigration problems stem from a political desire to increase voter rolls for one particular party. T

by crusso 13y ago

US immigration is broken on so many levels. A lot of our immigration problems stem from a political desire to increase voter rolls for one particular party. The Democrat party benefits greatly from illegal immigration from Mexico, so they refuse to do anything whatsoever to control that flow. That's great for Democrats to win elections and all, but it creates a backlash against immigration in general. Ironically, the most controllable area of immigration, that of those actually following the visa process suffer the most from that backlash.

CaptainZapp 13y ago
The Democrat party benefits greatly from illegal immigration from Mexico Could you back up that assertion with proof, or at least with some sound reasoning. While I can accept that Latinos tend to vote democrat illegal immigrants can't vote to begin with. So it certainly doesn't follow that "The Democrat party benefits greatly from illegal immigration from Mexico" To me that sounds a bit like partisan mud slinging, I'm sorry to say.
- xradionut 13y ago
  Both parties in the US benefit from illegal immigration from Mexico. Democrats have a huge Hispanic base which has interests in immigration reform. Republicans play both sides, one hand is bashing immigrants, while many of their supporters hire them for jobs to reduce costs.
  - crusso 13y ago
    I'd agree that the Republicans play both sides. As you mention, there's the job base group of Republicans, like those in line with the Chamber of Commerce. There's also the Republicans who think that somehow they're going to get in the good graces of illegal immigrants by maintaining a softer stance. That said, the only opposition to illegal immigration comes from corners of the Republican party. The Democrats are all-in and willing to use the Justice Department to sue states even trying to protect their own borders.
- crusso 13y ago
  Could you back up that assertion with proof Google "latino voting patterns us" and read. illegal immigrants can't vote to begin with 1. Don't you think that's kind of a myopic view of reality? The children of illegal immigrants are able to vote. 2. You don't see how extreme pandering to illegal immigrants might play into voting patterns of second and third(+) generation descendants?
  - drhouse_md 13y ago
    Don't you think that's kind of a myopic view of reality to speak of the descendants of illegal immigrants as though they weren't natural full born legal American citizens who are completely entitled to make an educated vote against an ever-shrinking old white male established hegemony that childishly refuses to represent modern reality and values, be it George Bush, Romney or any other stereotypical republican who's destroying your country purely for political gain.
    - crusso 13y ago
      American citizens who are completely entitled If my father robbed banks and amassed a great deal of money that he bequeathed to me... am I entitled to that money? Are Bernie Madoff's family members entitled to what he acquired through his illegal schemes? I find your definition of "entitled" to not be in line with my own. Further, my guess is that your "because they're already there" argument falls apart if you're talking about the land that the Israelis occupy. ever-shrinking old white male established hegemony For a side so vociferously opposed to racism, I find that dividing people based upon race is one of their most frequently-used arguments. modern reality and values If "modern reality and values" are equivalent to what causes Mexico to be such a crappy country, then I'll stick with the old white guys' reality and values. So we have Mexico, a country whose culture is irretrievably steeped in corruption and ignoring the rule of law to its eternal detriment... and yet the people of that culture who created that culture are to be encouraged to come to the USA without restriction and without hope that those people will absorb the existing culture that led to the success that draws the Mexicans here. Further, the very corruption and ignoring of the rule of law that led to the malaise in their society is the first thing that they use to get and stay here. Nice.
- bmelton 13y ago
  > illegal immigrants can't vote to begin with On a related note, this is why there's a rather huge debate over whether or not someone should be required to provide identification when they vote. Without trying to spark a partisan discussion, those taking positions against voter ID requirements are the ones you'd expect to be opposed to illegal immigrants voting, and those in favor of voter ID requirements are the ones you'd expect to benefit the most from illegal immigrants voting. Meanwhile, both sides have framed the argument in ways that bring up everything except immigration. In short, while I won't comment on who's right and who's wrong, the immigration debate in our country has nothing to do with immigration, and everything to do with the political windfall of which party gets to inherit the new voting bloc.
  - scottjad 13y ago
    > Without trying to spark a partisan discussion, those taking positions against voter ID requirements are the ones you'd expect to be opposed to illegal immigrants voting, and those in favor of voter ID requirements are the ones you'd expect to benefit the most from illegal immigrants voting. I think you have this backwards, perhaps unintentionally. North Carolina, with its Republican controlled Senate, and House, and Governor has passed voter ID laws. They are being challenged by the Democrat-controlled US Department of Justice.
    - bmelton 13y ago
      Indeed. It's too late to edit now, which is sad, since I was trying to avoid making party references, and got the example exactly backwards. Thanks for the correction.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- crusso 13y ago
  It's similar to the debt issue. Sure, Republicans are walking toward the cliff... but Democrats are running full speed with a pair of scissors in each hand.
mncolinlee 13y ago
This is pure groupthink with no evidence. The facts are quite the opposite. The administration of Barack Obama has locked up and deported more undocumented immigrants than any President in American history. [1] Now, I would agree that "the Democrat party" would benefit more if they did the opposite, but our President has not chosen that path. Militarization of the border is at an all-time high because of ignorant blather like the parent post that only harms our country and its workforce. [1] http://www.nationaljournal.com/next-america/actually-obama-has-been-terrible-for-immigrants-20131010 http://www.nationaljournal.com/next-america/actually-obama-h...
driverdan 13y ago
Except Democrats would benefit much more from relaxing immigration restrictions and allowing illegals to become legal. Then they could vote.

by crusso 13y ago

CaptainZapp 13y ago

The Democrat party benefits greatly from illegal immigration from Mexico Could you back up that assertion with proof, or at least with some sound reasoning. While I can accept that Latinos tend to vote democrat illegal immigrants can't vote to begin with. So it certainly doesn't follow that "The Democrat party benefits greatly from illegal immigration from Mexico" To me that sounds a bit like partisan mud slinging, I'm sorry to say.

xradionut 13y ago
Both parties in the US benefit from illegal immigration from Mexico. Democrats have a huge Hispanic base which has interests in immigration reform. Republicans play both sides, one hand is bashing immigrants, while many of their supporters hire them for jobs to reduce costs.
- crusso 13y ago
  I'd agree that the Republicans play both sides. As you mention, there's the job base group of Republicans, like those in line with the Chamber of Commerce. There's also the Republicans who think that somehow they're going to get in the good graces of illegal immigrants by maintaining a softer stance. That said, the only opposition to illegal immigration comes from corners of the Republican party. The Democrats are all-in and willing to use the Justice Department to sue states even trying to protect their own borders.
crusso 13y ago
Could you back up that assertion with proof Google "latino voting patterns us" and read. illegal immigrants can't vote to begin with 1. Don't you think that's kind of a myopic view of reality? The children of illegal immigrants are able to vote. 2. You don't see how extreme pandering to illegal immigrants might play into voting patterns of second and third(+) generation descendants?
- drhouse_md 13y ago
  Don't you think that's kind of a myopic view of reality to speak of the descendants of illegal immigrants as though they weren't natural full born legal American citizens who are completely entitled to make an educated vote against an ever-shrinking old white male established hegemony that childishly refuses to represent modern reality and values, be it George Bush, Romney or any other stereotypical republican who's destroying your country purely for political gain.
  - crusso 13y ago
    American citizens who are completely entitled If my father robbed banks and amassed a great deal of money that he bequeathed to me... am I entitled to that money? Are Bernie Madoff's family members entitled to what he acquired through his illegal schemes? I find your definition of "entitled" to not be in line with my own. Further, my guess is that your "because they're already there" argument falls apart if you're talking about the land that the Israelis occupy. ever-shrinking old white male established hegemony For a side so vociferously opposed to racism, I find that dividing people based upon race is one of their most frequently-used arguments. modern reality and values If "modern reality and values" are equivalent to what causes Mexico to be such a crappy country, then I'll stick with the old white guys' reality and values. So we have Mexico, a country whose culture is irretrievably steeped in corruption and ignoring the rule of law to its eternal detriment... and yet the people of that culture who created that culture are to be encouraged to come to the USA without restriction and without hope that those people will absorb the existing culture that led to the success that draws the Mexicans here. Further, the very corruption and ignoring of the rule of law that led to the malaise in their society is the first thing that they use to get and stay here. Nice.
bmelton 13y ago
> illegal immigrants can't vote to begin with On a related note, this is why there's a rather huge debate over whether or not someone should be required to provide identification when they vote. Without trying to spark a partisan discussion, those taking positions against voter ID requirements are the ones you'd expect to be opposed to illegal immigrants voting, and those in favor of voter ID requirements are the ones you'd expect to benefit the most from illegal immigrants voting. Meanwhile, both sides have framed the argument in ways that bring up everything except immigration. In short, while I won't comment on who's right and who's wrong, the immigration debate in our country has nothing to do with immigration, and everything to do with the political windfall of which party gets to inherit the new voting bloc.
- scottjad 13y ago
  > Without trying to spark a partisan discussion, those taking positions against voter ID requirements are the ones you'd expect to be opposed to illegal immigrants voting, and those in favor of voter ID requirements are the ones you'd expect to benefit the most from illegal immigrants voting. I think you have this backwards, perhaps unintentionally. North Carolina, with its Republican controlled Senate, and House, and Governor has passed voter ID laws. They are being challenged by the Democrat-controlled US Department of Justice.
  - bmelton 13y ago
    Indeed. It's too late to edit now, which is sad, since I was trying to avoid making party references, and got the example exactly backwards. Thanks for the correction.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

crusso 13y ago
It's similar to the debt issue. Sure, Republicans are walking toward the cliff... but Democrats are running full speed with a pair of scissors in each hand.

mncolinlee 13y ago

This is pure groupthink with no evidence. The facts are quite the opposite. The administration of Barack Obama has locked up and deported more undocumented immigrants than any President in American history. [1] Now, I would agree that "the Democrat party" would benefit more if they did the opposite, but our President has not chosen that path. Militarization of the border is at an all-time high because of ignorant blather like the parent post that only harms our country and its workforce. [1] http://www.nationaljournal.com/next-america/actually-obama-has-been-terrible-for-immigrants-20131010 http://www.nationaljournal.com/next-america/actually-obama-h...

driverdan 13y ago

Except Democrats would benefit much more from relaxing immigration restrictions and allowing illegals to become legal. Then they could vote.