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Problem there is that the US loudly and fundamentally claims to be a democracy. If we are to accept that, then we have to accept that the government embodies th

by alan_cx 13y ago

Problem there is that the US loudly and fundamentally claims to be a democracy. If we are to accept that, then we have to accept that the government embodies the will of its people. Or, seriously consider that the US is genuinely no longer a real democracy. It is a real shame, as you imply. American people have done incredible things which contribute to the world in general in a positive way, and the country its self is undoubtedly spectacular and beautiful. But the political atmosphere, the general fear, and the resulting attitudes are a total bar to me. These days I even worry about using US internet services since merely doing so can put me in the sights of US authorities and their insane legal system and laws. Worse still, my own government literally bend over for the US government. In short, a great people are strangling them selves.

crusso 13y ago
the government embodies the will of its people Like most people who vote have any understanding of what the government does or much less what the consequences of those actions are. Voting choices in the US are much like religion choices and football team choices -- nonsensical tribalism at its finest.
- IanDrake 13y ago
  >Voting choices in the US are much like religion choices and football team choices This is only true because people fail to vote (or even pay attention) in the primaries. By the time you get to the general election you get two terrible choices produced by the establishment. The result is that there is no difference between the two party candidates. Sure they're made to sound different, but policy and execution is the same.
  - crusso 13y ago
    This is only true because people fail to vote (or even pay attention) in the primaries ... which is only true because they don't really care who the candidate is as long as they have the R or D after their name. More than most people want to think about problems and their solutions, they want to feel like they belong to a family, a tribe, a team, or an organized religion.
Nrsolis 13y ago
I don't think it's fair to paint all of this as somehow originating with the US. This country doesn't exist in a vacuum and it is shaped by the political and economic forces that surround it. I think people forget that this nation is constantly under some form of "attack" by groups (nation-state and otherwise) who hope to destabilize it or mitigate the power it can wield. I'm an American and I'm fiercely proud of this country. We screw up all the time, but we've been able to manage a peaceful transition of power and somehow manage to find our way in a difficult and challenging world. I think it's lost on MANY people who are not citizens or residents that the USA is HUGE, politically diverse, and nearly as varied in customs, socioeconomics, and population as Europe. You can even stretch that to language in some parts of the USA. Try and get around South Miami without at least a smattering of Spanish language ability. Our legal system has it's flaws. You can definitely find examples of miscarriages of justice without too much trouble. Our bureaucracy is sometimes incomprehensible. Our tax systems are strange and often counterproductive. What is often missing is that all of these things are the result of a vigorous political experiment in self-government. Below the federal government, there are a whole slew of state, regional, city, town, village, and county governments that have wide latitude to set their own laws and practices. In certain counties in the USA, it's still illegal to buy alcohol. In other counties, you can buy alcohol at a DRIVE THRU. All of these variations are a result of people determining for themselves which laws they'll live under. It's closer to say that the USA is filled with many many cooperating democracies. Just remember that in this country, you can still go from dirt-floor poor (not an exaggeration) to billionaire in the span of a single lifetime. We're far from perfect, but it's the recognition that we're trying to perfect this country that makes us unique and special.
- bighi 13y ago
  Your country is constantly under attack? It's as varied in culture and population as Europe? You can go from poor to billionaire? Dude, I surely want to smoke what you're smoking.
  - Nrsolis 13y ago
    Please level up on your reading comprehension and see if you care to reframe your criticism. And Lloyd Blankfein grew up in a housing project in Brooklyn. In fact, the same housing project that Jay-Z did. It turns out that where hard work and preparation meet opportunity, there is luck to be won. I was born here as the child of two lower-class immigrant parents from different parts of the globe. Now I'm a one percenter. My wife grew up in a single parent household from the age of three, moved to NYC with $300 20 years ago and is also a wildly successful person. Rags to riches is not a fairy tale in the USA. It DOES happen but not without lots of hard work. Luck plays a part, but you'd be AMAZED at how many people with the good fortune to be US citizens can't manage to even get out of bed in the morning to take advantage of the amazing opportunities here.
neonhomer 13y ago
"Problem there is that the US loudly and fundamentally claims to be a democracy." That is part of the overall problem currently in the US. It is not a democracy; it is a constitutional republic. The representatives are elected democratically, but the whole point of the constitution is to limit to the powers of the government. It seems that 99% of the government has neglected or forgotten that, and sadly most of the general population has as well.
cLeEOGPw 13y ago
> Problem there is that the US loudly and fundamentally claims to be a democracy. If we are to accept that, then we have to accept that the government embodies the will of its people. Or, seriously consider that the US is genuinely no longer a real democracy. North Korea also claims to be a democratic. Self entitlement is meaningless.
DennisP 13y ago
After getting deeply involved in politics for about five years, I'll pick "no longer a real democracy," at least at the federal level, and my state's pretty shaky. Local's still good.

by alan_cx 13y ago

crusso 13y ago

the government embodies the will of its people Like most people who vote have any understanding of what the government does or much less what the consequences of those actions are. Voting choices in the US are much like religion choices and football team choices -- nonsensical tribalism at its finest.

IanDrake 13y ago
>Voting choices in the US are much like religion choices and football team choices This is only true because people fail to vote (or even pay attention) in the primaries. By the time you get to the general election you get two terrible choices produced by the establishment. The result is that there is no difference between the two party candidates. Sure they're made to sound different, but policy and execution is the same.
- crusso 13y ago
  This is only true because people fail to vote (or even pay attention) in the primaries ... which is only true because they don't really care who the candidate is as long as they have the R or D after their name. More than most people want to think about problems and their solutions, they want to feel like they belong to a family, a tribe, a team, or an organized religion.

Nrsolis 13y ago

I don't think it's fair to paint all of this as somehow originating with the US. This country doesn't exist in a vacuum and it is shaped by the political and economic forces that surround it. I think people forget that this nation is constantly under some form of "attack" by groups (nation-state and otherwise) who hope to destabilize it or mitigate the power it can wield. I'm an American and I'm fiercely proud of this country. We screw up all the time, but we've been able to manage a peaceful transition of power and somehow manage to find our way in a difficult and challenging world. I think it's lost on MANY people who are not citizens or residents that the USA is HUGE, politically diverse, and nearly as varied in customs, socioeconomics, and population as Europe. You can even stretch that to language in some parts of the USA. Try and get around South Miami without at least a smattering of Spanish language ability. Our legal system has it's flaws. You can definitely find examples of miscarriages of justice without too much trouble. Our bureaucracy is sometimes incomprehensible. Our tax systems are strange and often counterproductive. What is often missing is that all of these things are the result of a vigorous political experiment in self-government. Below the federal government, there are a whole slew of state, regional, city, town, village, and county governments that have wide latitude to set their own laws and practices. In certain counties in the USA, it's still illegal to buy alcohol. In other counties, you can buy alcohol at a DRIVE THRU. All of these variations are a result of people determining for themselves which laws they'll live under. It's closer to say that the USA is filled with many many cooperating democracies. Just remember that in this country, you can still go from dirt-floor poor (not an exaggeration) to billionaire in the span of a single lifetime. We're far from perfect, but it's the recognition that we're trying to perfect this country that makes us unique and special.

bighi 13y ago
Your country is constantly under attack? It's as varied in culture and population as Europe? You can go from poor to billionaire? Dude, I surely want to smoke what you're smoking.
- Nrsolis 13y ago
  Please level up on your reading comprehension and see if you care to reframe your criticism. And Lloyd Blankfein grew up in a housing project in Brooklyn. In fact, the same housing project that Jay-Z did. It turns out that where hard work and preparation meet opportunity, there is luck to be won. I was born here as the child of two lower-class immigrant parents from different parts of the globe. Now I'm a one percenter. My wife grew up in a single parent household from the age of three, moved to NYC with $300 20 years ago and is also a wildly successful person. Rags to riches is not a fairy tale in the USA. It DOES happen but not without lots of hard work. Luck plays a part, but you'd be AMAZED at how many people with the good fortune to be US citizens can't manage to even get out of bed in the morning to take advantage of the amazing opportunities here.

neonhomer 13y ago

"Problem there is that the US loudly and fundamentally claims to be a democracy." That is part of the overall problem currently in the US. It is not a democracy; it is a constitutional republic. The representatives are elected democratically, but the whole point of the constitution is to limit to the powers of the government. It seems that 99% of the government has neglected or forgotten that, and sadly most of the general population has as well.

cLeEOGPw 13y ago

> Problem there is that the US loudly and fundamentally claims to be a democracy. If we are to accept that, then we have to accept that the government embodies the will of its people. Or, seriously consider that the US is genuinely no longer a real democracy. North Korea also claims to be a democratic. Self entitlement is meaningless.

DennisP 13y ago

After getting deeply involved in politics for about five years, I'll pick "no longer a real democracy," at least at the federal level, and my state's pretty shaky. Local's still good.