4 ms·

I really like groovy, it seems to be a good sweet spot between the power of java and syntactic sugar. I just wish there were more framework options, like somet

I really like groovy, it seems to be a good sweet spot between the power of java and syntactic sugar. I just wish there were more framework options, like something between ratpack and grails. I dont want to use ORM or a heavy duty framework, but something a bit more structured than ratpack. Grails seems nice for what it is, but it just isn't what I need.

msgilligan 13y ago
You should definitely look at vert.x and possibly Spring Boot. vert.x - http://vertx.io http://vertx.io Spring Boot - http://projects.spring.io/spring-boot/ http://projects.spring.io/spring-boot/
- ecspike 13y ago
  There is a bit of buzz about Spring Boot in the Groovy space. It's possible to wire up a micro webframework example with only a couple lines of code in Groovy. Remember that Groovy, Grails, and Spring Boot are run by the same company, there might be some synergy between the latter two at some point.
  - msgilligan 13y ago
    Grails 2.4 will have Spring 4.0 support. (Spring Boot is based on Spring 4) Of course there already is synergy in that you can reuse components between Grails and Spring, but things will be getting even better with Spring 4 and Grails 2.4: http://grails.org/Roadmap http://grails.org/Roadmap
  - vorg 13y ago
    > Remember that Groovy, Grails, and Spring Boot are run by the same company, there might be some synergy It's because Groovy and its apps like Grails are part of the same company that many developers are afraid of creating anything web-related for Groovy that's not a Grails plugin. Grails head Graeme Rocher was evn one of the 5 Groovy despots for 4 yrs, and didn't leave until a few months ago. This could have been what prompted the Play! 2 framework to purge itself of all its Groovy code.
    - mcv 13y ago
      Why exactly is that a reason to be afraid? What are they afraid of?
    - taeric 13y ago
      If we are going all conspiracy territory on why Play dropped a language in favor of another, it would seem much easier to say that the controlling company of Play decided to drop support of a somewhat competitive alternative language for the JVM. :) No need to bring the stewardship of groovy into it.
babs474 13y ago
Groovy doesn't get enough love as a post java jvm language IMO. I agree that grails is a bit heavyweight. The people at my former place did some work on using groovy with dropwizard: https://speakerdeck.com/kyleboon/webservices-with-dropwizard-and-groovy https://speakerdeck.com/kyleboon/webservices-with-dropwizard... which is seems to be more of a nice collection of libraries, rather than a box you in framework.
- netcraft 13y ago
  My biggest complaint with Grails is its reliance on GORM - You can do sql, but it doesn't make it easy and the whole framework is really geared towards the ORM functionality and the opinionated view of the database and naming conventions. I need to be able to integrate with legacy data sets, and need more control over the database in general. Grails works well if your database is just a simple store for your application data.
  - babs474 13y ago
    That is my experience too, but I blame it on hibernate which GORM is just a dsl wrapper for. Its fine when it works, but expect inscrutable session flushing errors when you try and flex it too hard.
  - _JamesA_ 13y ago
    You can easily peel away the layers all the way down to direct SQL, completely bypassing GORM and Hibernate, when necessary.
  - ebiester 13y ago
    I've used it with legacy applications with good success. If you really want, you can completely ignore GORM. Leave the domain directory blank, use command objects for your DAOs and DTOs. You can add your validation straight to command objects. On top of that, you can write your own hibernate xml on which your domain objects depend. If you get too fancy, you'll lose some of your GORM syntactic sugar, but you do have options.
    - 13y ago
vorg 13y ago
> I just wish there were more framework options Grails head Graeme Rocher was one of the 5 Groovy despots [1] until a few months ago. He joined the despotry 4 yrs ago, which could have been what prompted the Play! 2 framework to purge itself of all its Groovy code. Groovy really needs its managers to be divorced from those developing the apps that use it, so others will join the ecosystem without being suspicious of what might happen in the future. [1] http://xircles.codehaus.org/projects/groovy/members http://xircles.codehaus.org/projects/groovy/members
- mindcrime 13y ago
  Axe to grind, much? "Despots"? Really? What, do you work for Typesafe or Relevance or somebody with a vested interested in slagging Groovy, or what?!??
  - vorg 13y ago
    They call themselves "despots" in the link you replied to. Btw, I don't work for any company with a vested interest against Groovy, but am reimplementing Groovy as a side project. I think Groovy and its apps like Grails should be kept separate if they developers to build things using Groovy, like in pretty much every other language.
    - mindcrime 13y ago
      Interesting. I'm guessing that was meant to be mostly tongue in cheek, much like referring to Guido as the "Benevolent Dictator for Life" of Python. Btw, I don't work for any company with a vested interest against Groovy, but am reimplementing Groovy as a side project. Sounds pretty cool. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!
    - sigzero 13y ago
      You are not using that word like they were. So stop.

msgilligan 13y ago

You should definitely look at vert.x and possibly Spring Boot. vert.x - http://vertx.io http://vertx.io Spring Boot - http://projects.spring.io/spring-boot/ http://projects.spring.io/spring-boot/

ecspike 13y ago
There is a bit of buzz about Spring Boot in the Groovy space. It's possible to wire up a micro webframework example with only a couple lines of code in Groovy. Remember that Groovy, Grails, and Spring Boot are run by the same company, there might be some synergy between the latter two at some point.
- msgilligan 13y ago
  Grails 2.4 will have Spring 4.0 support. (Spring Boot is based on Spring 4) Of course there already is synergy in that you can reuse components between Grails and Spring, but things will be getting even better with Spring 4 and Grails 2.4: http://grails.org/Roadmap http://grails.org/Roadmap
- vorg 13y ago
  > Remember that Groovy, Grails, and Spring Boot are run by the same company, there might be some synergy It's because Groovy and its apps like Grails are part of the same company that many developers are afraid of creating anything web-related for Groovy that's not a Grails plugin. Grails head Graeme Rocher was evn one of the 5 Groovy despots for 4 yrs, and didn't leave until a few months ago. This could have been what prompted the Play! 2 framework to purge itself of all its Groovy code.
  - mcv 13y ago
    Why exactly is that a reason to be afraid? What are they afraid of?
  - taeric 13y ago
    If we are going all conspiracy territory on why Play dropped a language in favor of another, it would seem much easier to say that the controlling company of Play decided to drop support of a somewhat competitive alternative language for the JVM. :) No need to bring the stewardship of groovy into it.

babs474 13y ago

Groovy doesn't get enough love as a post java jvm language IMO. I agree that grails is a bit heavyweight. The people at my former place did some work on using groovy with dropwizard: https://speakerdeck.com/kyleboon/webservices-with-dropwizard-and-groovy https://speakerdeck.com/kyleboon/webservices-with-dropwizard... which is seems to be more of a nice collection of libraries, rather than a box you in framework.

netcraft 13y ago
My biggest complaint with Grails is its reliance on GORM - You can do sql, but it doesn't make it easy and the whole framework is really geared towards the ORM functionality and the opinionated view of the database and naming conventions. I need to be able to integrate with legacy data sets, and need more control over the database in general. Grails works well if your database is just a simple store for your application data.
- babs474 13y ago
  That is my experience too, but I blame it on hibernate which GORM is just a dsl wrapper for. Its fine when it works, but expect inscrutable session flushing errors when you try and flex it too hard.
- _JamesA_ 13y ago
  You can easily peel away the layers all the way down to direct SQL, completely bypassing GORM and Hibernate, when necessary.
- ebiester 13y ago
  I've used it with legacy applications with good success. If you really want, you can completely ignore GORM. Leave the domain directory blank, use command objects for your DAOs and DTOs. You can add your validation straight to command objects. On top of that, you can write your own hibernate xml on which your domain objects depend. If you get too fancy, you'll lose some of your GORM syntactic sugar, but you do have options.
  - 13y ago

vorg 13y ago

> I just wish there were more framework options Grails head Graeme Rocher was one of the 5 Groovy despots [1] until a few months ago. He joined the despotry 4 yrs ago, which could have been what prompted the Play! 2 framework to purge itself of all its Groovy code. Groovy really needs its managers to be divorced from those developing the apps that use it, so others will join the ecosystem without being suspicious of what might happen in the future. [1] http://xircles.codehaus.org/projects/groovy/members http://xircles.codehaus.org/projects/groovy/members

mindcrime 13y ago
Axe to grind, much? "Despots"? Really? What, do you work for Typesafe or Relevance or somebody with a vested interested in slagging Groovy, or what?!??
- vorg 13y ago
  They call themselves "despots" in the link you replied to. Btw, I don't work for any company with a vested interest against Groovy, but am reimplementing Groovy as a side project. I think Groovy and its apps like Grails should be kept separate if they developers to build things using Groovy, like in pretty much every other language.
  - mindcrime 13y ago
    Interesting. I'm guessing that was meant to be mostly tongue in cheek, much like referring to Guido as the "Benevolent Dictator for Life" of Python. Btw, I don't work for any company with a vested interest against Groovy, but am reimplementing Groovy as a side project. Sounds pretty cool. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!
  - sigzero 13y ago
    You are not using that word like they were. So stop.