4 ms·

I find your reaction... odd? He's won a grant to develop a tool that has the potential to help out people with a real problem. Why should that disgust anyone?

throwsaway 13y ago
Suggesting to anyone serious about suicide that an app will help is insulting. You have to be naive and unwilling to understand or a megalomaniac to think an app will help.
- vikp 13y ago
  I have a painfully personal acquaintance with suicide. I agree that an app couldn't have done much for it after a certain point. But what causes people to be suicidal in the first place? In my experience, feeling like they don't matter. Apps by themselves can't do anything about that feeling, yes. But apps are used by people. And apps can help put you in touch with people who can change your life. Who can help you understand that you are important. Apps can also put you in touch with yourself, and help you grasp your own context. Perhaps this specific app will work, perhaps it won't, but writing off any and all apps seems a bit premature.
- hfourm 13y ago
  you are probably smarter than us
- saturdayplace 13y ago
  I'm definitely willing to be labeled naive. Would suggesting a call to a suicide hotline be as insulting? What if the app carries out similar functions as a hotline? Please, I'm not trying to troll, just trying to understand why the idea of this app is so repugnant. Also, while this specific app may not be able to help, doesn't it seem at least possible that some app, some day might? It seems prematurely dismissive to write apps off as wholly ineffectual. Unless suicide is a case where you're likely to do more harm than good?
  - ancarda 13y ago
    >Would suggesting a call to a suicide hotline be as insulting? That depends a lot on context. In some cases, yes. >What if the app carries out similar functions as a hotline? Who would you talk to? A volunteer? What happens when 4chan gets their hands on this app? >Unless suicide is a case where you're likely to do more harm than good See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6757098 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6757098 As for displaying a hotline number, you can find that information on Google. Literally search "suicide" and the first thing listed is a phone number you can call for help. If the app is just a number of a suicide hotline, then it's a pretty pointless app. What may be more useful is a collection of services and communities (ie. suicide hotlines by state/country, communities like /r/SuicideWatch, general information). However, that sounds a lot like a website and not an app.
ancarda 13y ago
Does he have any experience with suicides? Has he lost anyone or felt suicidal himself? People who have know how difficult it is. The app was described as a "social network". As someone who has experience with suicide (both from my perspective and from losing people), I have to question what a difference that will make. How exactly does it work? If he can't explain, perhaps a mockup of the UI might answer a lot of questions. Of course it has the potential to help someone. Everything has potential but how realistic is that? The chance that this will make a difference seems really low to me. I hate to be the negative guy on HN but suicide is a serious matter and I can't see why anybody would give grants to 15 year olds to build 'apps' to 'prevent it'.
- jacalata 13y ago
  I expect it works like this a) run an awareness campaign about suicide prevention disguised as a competition among young people to get them talking about and thinking about suicide prevention. Probably do some education in there labelled as 'how to come up with good ideas for our competition', with increased interest due to a potential 'win money!!' hook. b) who knows, maybe you'd actually get some worthwhile ideas, or something useful could be created. Not really the point, more of a bonus if it happens. But the winners will continue to be aware of the problem, possibly become evangelists, and you can get some more publicity when they release their thing later = more awareness.
- saturdayplace 13y ago
  So, it's probably not realistic to assume this particular app will help. The chance that it will make an actual difference is probably pretty low. Is that reason enough to dismiss the idea? Or to dismiss "apps" entirely as a possible tool for helping suicidal people? I said this below, but unless suicide is an area where you have more potential to cause harm than to do good, it seems like a worthwhile direction to spend resources.
  - ancarda 13y ago
    >Is that reason enough to dismiss the idea? Usually, no. But we're not dealing with "will my photo sharing startup succeed?" >unless suicide is an area where you have more potential to cause harm than to do good It's extremely difficult to give good advice to a suicidal person. Almost everything can be interpreted as negative. Your dealing with someone who is in a dangerous mind set. Even telling someone "it'll get better" can make it worse. This is why I stressed the importance of experience. Some information: http://www.reddit.com/r/SuicideWatch/comments/1cep2h/psa_whats_wrong_with_posting_a_general_people/ http://www.reddit.com/r/SuicideWatch/comments/1cep2h/psa_wha...

throwsaway 13y ago

Suggesting to anyone serious about suicide that an app will help is insulting. You have to be naive and unwilling to understand or a megalomaniac to think an app will help.

vikp 13y ago
I have a painfully personal acquaintance with suicide. I agree that an app couldn't have done much for it after a certain point. But what causes people to be suicidal in the first place? In my experience, feeling like they don't matter. Apps by themselves can't do anything about that feeling, yes. But apps are used by people. And apps can help put you in touch with people who can change your life. Who can help you understand that you are important. Apps can also put you in touch with yourself, and help you grasp your own context. Perhaps this specific app will work, perhaps it won't, but writing off any and all apps seems a bit premature.
hfourm 13y ago
you are probably smarter than us
saturdayplace 13y ago
I'm definitely willing to be labeled naive. Would suggesting a call to a suicide hotline be as insulting? What if the app carries out similar functions as a hotline? Please, I'm not trying to troll, just trying to understand why the idea of this app is so repugnant. Also, while this specific app may not be able to help, doesn't it seem at least possible that some app, some day might? It seems prematurely dismissive to write apps off as wholly ineffectual. Unless suicide is a case where you're likely to do more harm than good?
- ancarda 13y ago
  >Would suggesting a call to a suicide hotline be as insulting? That depends a lot on context. In some cases, yes. >What if the app carries out similar functions as a hotline? Who would you talk to? A volunteer? What happens when 4chan gets their hands on this app? >Unless suicide is a case where you're likely to do more harm than good See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6757098 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6757098 As for displaying a hotline number, you can find that information on Google. Literally search "suicide" and the first thing listed is a phone number you can call for help. If the app is just a number of a suicide hotline, then it's a pretty pointless app. What may be more useful is a collection of services and communities (ie. suicide hotlines by state/country, communities like /r/SuicideWatch, general information). However, that sounds a lot like a website and not an app.

ancarda 13y ago

Does he have any experience with suicides? Has he lost anyone or felt suicidal himself? People who have know how difficult it is. The app was described as a "social network". As someone who has experience with suicide (both from my perspective and from losing people), I have to question what a difference that will make. How exactly does it work? If he can't explain, perhaps a mockup of the UI might answer a lot of questions. Of course it has the potential to help someone. Everything has potential but how realistic is that? The chance that this will make a difference seems really low to me. I hate to be the negative guy on HN but suicide is a serious matter and I can't see why anybody would give grants to 15 year olds to build 'apps' to 'prevent it'.

jacalata 13y ago
I expect it works like this a) run an awareness campaign about suicide prevention disguised as a competition among young people to get them talking about and thinking about suicide prevention. Probably do some education in there labelled as 'how to come up with good ideas for our competition', with increased interest due to a potential 'win money!!' hook. b) who knows, maybe you'd actually get some worthwhile ideas, or something useful could be created. Not really the point, more of a bonus if it happens. But the winners will continue to be aware of the problem, possibly become evangelists, and you can get some more publicity when they release their thing later = more awareness.
saturdayplace 13y ago
So, it's probably not realistic to assume this particular app will help. The chance that it will make an actual difference is probably pretty low. Is that reason enough to dismiss the idea? Or to dismiss "apps" entirely as a possible tool for helping suicidal people? I said this below, but unless suicide is an area where you have more potential to cause harm than to do good, it seems like a worthwhile direction to spend resources.
- ancarda 13y ago
  >Is that reason enough to dismiss the idea? Usually, no. But we're not dealing with "will my photo sharing startup succeed?" >unless suicide is an area where you have more potential to cause harm than to do good It's extremely difficult to give good advice to a suicidal person. Almost everything can be interpreted as negative. Your dealing with someone who is in a dangerous mind set. Even telling someone "it'll get better" can make it worse. This is why I stressed the importance of experience. Some information: http://www.reddit.com/r/SuicideWatch/comments/1cep2h/psa_whats_wrong_with_posting_a_general_people/ http://www.reddit.com/r/SuicideWatch/comments/1cep2h/psa_wha...