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http://37signals.com/remote/ http://37signals.com/remote/ >REMOTE, the new book by 37signals, shows both employers and employees how they can work together, re

by Permit 13y ago

http://37signals.com/remote/ http://37signals.com/remote/ >REMOTE, the new book by 37signals, shows both employers and employees how they can work together, remotely, from any desk, in any space, in any place, anytime, anywhere. Maybe attacking Microsoft for the exposure works as a marketing strategy, but it's a particularly bizarre one considering their own take on remote work. Scott Hanselman had an excellent take on the whole thing yesterday: http://www.hanselman.com/blog/WorkingRemotelyConsideredDystopian.aspx http://www.hanselman.com/blog/WorkingRemotelyConsideredDysto...

larrys 13y ago
"Maybe attacking Microsoft for the exposure works as a marketing strategy" Watch and learn. I just got more exposure to the 37signals brand. "but it's a particularly bizarre" Bizarre gets plenty of attention. Hence why something like this would be known as a marketing ploy. The irony of it all is very attractive. Might also be that some people actually like to work. I'm sure many hackers reading HN and/or spending time on side projects don't consider that work (although their significant other might). Likewise some people do like to work and are interested in trading short term enjoyment for (what they think could be) future gain. Nothing wrong with that. Guess what? I don't find it enjoyable to be at a sports even (some people do of course and I recognize that) I'd rather be "working" (if you want to call it that). I'm not suffering at all.
davidw 13y ago
> Maybe attacking Microsoft for the exposure works as a marketing strategy, Bingo: it's straight out of their book: http://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch02_Have_an_Enemy.php http://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch02_Have_an_Enemy.php
deleted 13y ago
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untog 13y ago
I do like that he's pointed out Google stating the exact same thing on their Google Apps pitch page. Sometimes it feels like our outrage is mostly fueled by preconceptions (Google = free thinkers! Microsoft = baaaad)
josefresco 13y ago
Thank you for this. I could re-work all of their graphics from Remote in similar fashion which would make their advice seem similarly insane to MS's.
deleted 13y ago
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acron0 13y ago
I genuinely love Scott's style of blogging. He has a real knack of putting across a cool and thoughtful article whilst not pandering to any one tech following...despite being a Microsoft employee.
jccc 13y ago
The book's subtitle is "Office not required." It's about being able to work without having to live the same city or country, and not having to work together with everyone in the same office. Microsoft's campaign quite obviously shows 9-5 office workers getting things done while away from the office outside of office hours, when -- in 37signals' view -- they ought to be living their lives. The full quote from your URL: "As an employer, restricting your hiring to a small geographic region means you’re not getting the best people you can. As an employee, restricting your job search to companies within a reasonable commute means you’re not working for the best company you can. REMOTE, the new book by 37signals, shows both employers and employees how they can work together, remotely, from any desk, in any space, in any place, anytime, anywhere."
dylandrop 13y ago
I think there's a difference between remote work in general and remote work done during time that should be personal (i.e. during weekends, during dates, before sleep). Just because someone is working remotely doesn't mean that they're working during their off-hours. In fact, I think a lot of what 37S espouses is a work life balance given to you by remote work -- just look at the ad for the book. It doesn't show people working during personal activities.
skue 13y ago
If you can't reconcile this 37signals campaign against Office365 with their book on remote working, then maybe this explanation will help: * 37signals believes that empowering employees to work remotely is a good thing (see Remote[1] and We Work Remotely[2]). * 37signals also believes that a live/work balance is important and it's critically important to confine work to work hours whenever possible (see Rework[3] and various blog posts[4,5]). * The problem with the Office365 campaign is that it sells remote access to managers with the promise that they can increase productivity by expecting their employees to work from dawn to dusk, and even while in the bathroom or eating meals. Remote work and employee availability are orthogonal concepts. While remote work may enable more flexible work hours, granting remote access to employees should not come with the expectation that they are available 24/7. I'm surprised that more people cannot grok this distinction, and if that's true here at HN then I really worry that Microsoft's Office365 campaign may turn out to be prescient. [1] https://37signals.com/remote/ https://37signals.com/remote/ [2] https://weworkremotely.com https://weworkremotely.com [3] http://37signals.com/rework/ http://37signals.com/rework/ [4] https://37signals.com/svn/posts/3180-a-good-days-work https://37signals.com/svn/posts/3180-a-good-days-work [5] http://37signals.com/svn/posts/902-fire-the-workaholics http://37signals.com/svn/posts/902-fire-the-workaholics Edit: Fixed grammar issue. Added references.
Arjuna 13y ago
If you want deeper insights on this specific issue, read the actual paper on the survey details [1]. A few excerpts from the paper: "While two in three office workers believe there is a clear line between when their professional life stops and their personal life begins, the data from Microsoft's Get It Done survey suggests quite the opposite – that in 2013, the barrier between personal and professional is not only blurry, but in fact may no longer exist at all. In reality, more than three-quarters of office workers say they work at least occasionally at unconventional times, either on weekends or outside of normal business hours and more than 1 in 2 office workers say they are now expected to be available no matter what time it is." "As mentioned, more than 1 in 2 office workers say it is now an expectation and a necessity to be able to get work done whenever and wherever they are." "In fact, 44% have multi-tasked by working while watching television; 36% while eating a meal at home; 19% while going to the bathroom; 9% while taking a shower or bath; and 4% while having sex!" "In thinking back over your career, we would like to know how technology, that allows you to work outside the traditional office, has changed your work life: 74% responded with, 'I work more hours.'" [1] http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/presskits/office/docs/microsoftgetitdone.pdf http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/presskits/office/docs/mi... -- It seems that this is the employer driving the culture, rather than the employees. I mean, if the expectation is there, then of course the culture is going to shift toward "always available" accommodations. Also, speaking as a developer here, I cannot imagine being productive in many of the described scenarios. I need quiet, large (4 to 8 hour) blocks of time to solve the type of problems that I am working; that's not going to happen at a recital, at a soccer match, while watching a program, etc. Moreover, if I was at one of those events, then, wait for it... I'm there to enjoy that event. I also recognize that this is part of our culture (speaking as an American here). But, personally, I don't work on vacation. I've never understood it. Vacation is that sacrosanct time when you get to breathe that rarefied air of truly unplugging and dropping out. In the view of management, remote is becoming synonymous with always available.

by Permit 13y ago

larrys 13y ago

"Maybe attacking Microsoft for the exposure works as a marketing strategy" Watch and learn. I just got more exposure to the 37signals brand. "but it's a particularly bizarre" Bizarre gets plenty of attention. Hence why something like this would be known as a marketing ploy. The irony of it all is very attractive. Might also be that some people actually like to work. I'm sure many hackers reading HN and/or spending time on side projects don't consider that work (although their significant other might). Likewise some people do like to work and are interested in trading short term enjoyment for (what they think could be) future gain. Nothing wrong with that. Guess what? I don't find it enjoyable to be at a sports even (some people do of course and I recognize that) I'd rather be "working" (if you want to call it that). I'm not suffering at all.

davidw 13y ago

> Maybe attacking Microsoft for the exposure works as a marketing strategy, Bingo: it's straight out of their book: http://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch02_Have_an_Enemy.php http://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch02_Have_an_Enemy.php

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

untog 13y ago

I do like that he's pointed out Google stating the exact same thing on their Google Apps pitch page. Sometimes it feels like our outrage is mostly fueled by preconceptions (Google = free thinkers! Microsoft = baaaad)

josefresco 13y ago

Thank you for this. I could re-work all of their graphics from Remote in similar fashion which would make their advice seem similarly insane to MS's.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

acron0 13y ago

I genuinely love Scott's style of blogging. He has a real knack of putting across a cool and thoughtful article whilst not pandering to any one tech following...despite being a Microsoft employee.

jccc 13y ago

The book's subtitle is "Office not required." It's about being able to work without having to live the same city or country, and not having to work together with everyone in the same office. Microsoft's campaign quite obviously shows 9-5 office workers getting things done while away from the office outside of office hours, when -- in 37signals' view -- they ought to be living their lives. The full quote from your URL: "As an employer, restricting your hiring to a small geographic region means you’re not getting the best people you can. As an employee, restricting your job search to companies within a reasonable commute means you’re not working for the best company you can. REMOTE, the new book by 37signals, shows both employers and employees how they can work together, remotely, from any desk, in any space, in any place, anytime, anywhere."

dylandrop 13y ago

I think there's a difference between remote work in general and remote work done during time that should be personal (i.e. during weekends, during dates, before sleep). Just because someone is working remotely doesn't mean that they're working during their off-hours. In fact, I think a lot of what 37S espouses is a work life balance given to you by remote work -- just look at the ad for the book. It doesn't show people working during personal activities.

skue 13y ago

If you can't reconcile this 37signals campaign against Office365 with their book on remote working, then maybe this explanation will help: * 37signals believes that empowering employees to work remotely is a good thing (see Remote[1] and We Work Remotely[2]). * 37signals also believes that a live/work balance is important and it's critically important to confine work to work hours whenever possible (see Rework[3] and various blog posts[4,5]). * The problem with the Office365 campaign is that it sells remote access to managers with the promise that they can increase productivity by expecting their employees to work from dawn to dusk, and even while in the bathroom or eating meals. Remote work and employee availability are orthogonal concepts. While remote work may enable more flexible work hours, granting remote access to employees should not come with the expectation that they are available 24/7. I'm surprised that more people cannot grok this distinction, and if that's true here at HN then I really worry that Microsoft's Office365 campaign may turn out to be prescient. [1] https://37signals.com/remote/ https://37signals.com/remote/ [2] https://weworkremotely.com https://weworkremotely.com [3] http://37signals.com/rework/ http://37signals.com/rework/ [4] https://37signals.com/svn/posts/3180-a-good-days-work https://37signals.com/svn/posts/3180-a-good-days-work [5] http://37signals.com/svn/posts/902-fire-the-workaholics http://37signals.com/svn/posts/902-fire-the-workaholics Edit: Fixed grammar issue. Added references.

Arjuna 13y ago

If you want deeper insights on this specific issue, read the actual paper on the survey details [1]. A few excerpts from the paper: "While two in three office workers believe there is a clear line between when their professional life stops and their personal life begins, the data from Microsoft's Get It Done survey suggests quite the opposite – that in 2013, the barrier between personal and professional is not only blurry, but in fact may no longer exist at all. In reality, more than three-quarters of office workers say they work at least occasionally at unconventional times, either on weekends or outside of normal business hours and more than 1 in 2 office workers say they are now expected to be available no matter what time it is." "As mentioned, more than 1 in 2 office workers say it is now an expectation and a necessity to be able to get work done whenever and wherever they are." "In fact, 44% have multi-tasked by working while watching television; 36% while eating a meal at home; 19% while going to the bathroom; 9% while taking a shower or bath; and 4% while having sex!" "In thinking back over your career, we would like to know how technology, that allows you to work outside the traditional office, has changed your work life: 74% responded with, 'I work more hours.'" [1] http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/presskits/office/docs/microsoftgetitdone.pdf http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/presskits/office/docs/mi... -- It seems that this is the employer driving the culture, rather than the employees. I mean, if the expectation is there, then of course the culture is going to shift toward "always available" accommodations. Also, speaking as a developer here, I cannot imagine being productive in many of the described scenarios. I need quiet, large (4 to 8 hour) blocks of time to solve the type of problems that I am working; that's not going to happen at a recital, at a soccer match, while watching a program, etc. Moreover, if I was at one of those events, then, wait for it... I'm there to enjoy that event. I also recognize that this is part of our culture (speaking as an American here). But, personally, I don't work on vacation. I've never understood it. Vacation is that sacrosanct time when you get to breathe that rarefied air of truly unplugging and dropping out. In the view of management, remote is becoming synonymous with always available.