4 ms·

It's sad that the Armed Forces are now looked upon with disdain by hackers mere decades after the West wrested the world from Germany's grasp. Say what you wan

by nhangen 13y ago

It's sad that the Armed Forces are now looked upon with disdain by hackers mere decades after the West wrested the world from Germany's grasp. Say what you want about the military industrial complex, but lets not forget that should any of our countries be invaded, we will be very grateful that those guns pointing at the invaders.

CWuestefeld 13y ago
On the other hand, there's good reason to believe that terrorism is directed against us because we're continually pointing guns in their direction. Can it be that the military is both the problem and its own solution?
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > On the other hand, there's good reason to believe that terrorism is directed against us because we're continually pointing guns in their direction. There's a better reason to believe that terrorism is directed at us more because of our history and continuing practice of direct support for both repressive regimes that are unpopular with large segments of their own* population in the Middle East and Central Asia than because of our military specifically (though, particulary post-9/11, our use of the military has played directly into the same animosity.) (* or, in the case of Israel specifically, a population that they simultaneously claim is not their own and disclaim interest in governing, but nevertheless seek to control every aspect of.) > Can it be that the military is both the problem and its own solution? Its a secondary aspect (as discussed above) of the problem, as well as a treatment for the symptoms that doesn't actually solve anything. Sure, we need to have a military for defensive purposes. But the US doesn't maintain military spending at a level that rivals the rest of the world combined for anything resembling "defensive" purposes, it does so to maintain global hegemony and the ability to dictate policy in a wide range of domains to countries all over the world. That's not to say it didn't come out of a legitimate, even defensive, place -- much of it was necessary, though one may certainly debate particular aspects, during the Cold War to counterbalance the attempts led by the Soviet Union to export Stalinism. But with that enemy defeated, the military-industrial complex is now more about serving domestic commercial interests -- both those that have are part of the military industrial complex and dependent on military spending directly, and those that through more traditional lobbying seek to have preferred policies imposed both domestically and globally.
pw53 13y ago
World War II veterans are treated as heroes by damned near everyone in the U.S.A. -- including those who are anti-war/anti-military. Incidentally, in Russia it's largely the same outcome: WWII survivors adored, post-WWII veterans scorned. It's interesting how forced conscription and a global threat causes a civilian population to revere its then-military.
- fit2rule 13y ago
  If you've killed Nazi's, you surely can stomp all over a Hippies' rights to express utter disdain of the Warrior class, amiright?
pa5tabear 13y ago
Disdain is inappropriate, but so is automatic praise. The media wants to paint this picture that members of the military choose to serve for altruistic reasons and that we need to celebrate them all. This may be true for some, but I think the majority are in the military more-so because they think it's their best option for starting a career. Additionally, the justness of military conflicts these days is far more questionable than in the past. Doesn't this make it reasonable to be more critical of the military as a whole?
- nhangen 13y ago
  I agree. I served 4+ years in the Army and was deployed as part of OEF. I'm uncomfortable with the automatic praise; it's definitely not why I signed up. However, given a choice I'd prefer that the scale remain tipped towards praise instead of neglect or ignorance. It's true, not all Soldiers serve altruistically, but they serve nonetheless. It's fine to question the intent of our government, military, and its officers, but try to remember that for the most part, Soldiers are forced to follow orders or face jail time, and they are constantly reminded of this. The recruitment pitch is vastly different from the reality. I remember many Tuesdays where we'd spend the day sweeping the motor pool, wondering if we really deserved the praise bestowed upon us. Rest assured, most Soldiers wrestle with this at some point during their career.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > Additionally, the justness of military conflicts these days is far more questionable than in the past. Er, what?
DerpDerpDerp 13y ago
The Armed Forces (and similar government organizations) spent their good will raping people in Abu Ghraib, mutilating people in Afghanistan, blowing people apart in cafes across the Middle East, illegally spying on Americans for who knows what reason, and generally acting like a bunch of psychopaths with little to no respect for the rule of law. Why would we trust any institution acting so obviously violent and so completely unaccountable?

by nhangen 13y ago

CWuestefeld 13y ago

On the other hand, there's good reason to believe that terrorism is directed against us because we're continually pointing guns in their direction. Can it be that the military is both the problem and its own solution?

dragonwriter 13y ago
> On the other hand, there's good reason to believe that terrorism is directed against us because we're continually pointing guns in their direction. There's a better reason to believe that terrorism is directed at us more because of our history and continuing practice of direct support for both repressive regimes that are unpopular with large segments of their own* population in the Middle East and Central Asia than because of our military specifically (though, particulary post-9/11, our use of the military has played directly into the same animosity.) (* or, in the case of Israel specifically, a population that they simultaneously claim is not their own and disclaim interest in governing, but nevertheless seek to control every aspect of.) > Can it be that the military is both the problem and its own solution? Its a secondary aspect (as discussed above) of the problem, as well as a treatment for the symptoms that doesn't actually solve anything. Sure, we need to have a military for defensive purposes. But the US doesn't maintain military spending at a level that rivals the rest of the world combined for anything resembling "defensive" purposes, it does so to maintain global hegemony and the ability to dictate policy in a wide range of domains to countries all over the world. That's not to say it didn't come out of a legitimate, even defensive, place -- much of it was necessary, though one may certainly debate particular aspects, during the Cold War to counterbalance the attempts led by the Soviet Union to export Stalinism. But with that enemy defeated, the military-industrial complex is now more about serving domestic commercial interests -- both those that have are part of the military industrial complex and dependent on military spending directly, and those that through more traditional lobbying seek to have preferred policies imposed both domestically and globally.

pw53 13y ago

World War II veterans are treated as heroes by damned near everyone in the U.S.A. -- including those who are anti-war/anti-military. Incidentally, in Russia it's largely the same outcome: WWII survivors adored, post-WWII veterans scorned. It's interesting how forced conscription and a global threat causes a civilian population to revere its then-military.

fit2rule 13y ago
If you've killed Nazi's, you surely can stomp all over a Hippies' rights to express utter disdain of the Warrior class, amiright?

pa5tabear 13y ago

Disdain is inappropriate, but so is automatic praise. The media wants to paint this picture that members of the military choose to serve for altruistic reasons and that we need to celebrate them all. This may be true for some, but I think the majority are in the military more-so because they think it's their best option for starting a career. Additionally, the justness of military conflicts these days is far more questionable than in the past. Doesn't this make it reasonable to be more critical of the military as a whole?

nhangen 13y ago
I agree. I served 4+ years in the Army and was deployed as part of OEF. I'm uncomfortable with the automatic praise; it's definitely not why I signed up. However, given a choice I'd prefer that the scale remain tipped towards praise instead of neglect or ignorance. It's true, not all Soldiers serve altruistically, but they serve nonetheless. It's fine to question the intent of our government, military, and its officers, but try to remember that for the most part, Soldiers are forced to follow orders or face jail time, and they are constantly reminded of this. The recruitment pitch is vastly different from the reality. I remember many Tuesdays where we'd spend the day sweeping the motor pool, wondering if we really deserved the praise bestowed upon us. Rest assured, most Soldiers wrestle with this at some point during their career.
dragonwriter 13y ago
> Additionally, the justness of military conflicts these days is far more questionable than in the past. Er, what?

DerpDerpDerp 13y ago

The Armed Forces (and similar government organizations) spent their good will raping people in Abu Ghraib, mutilating people in Afghanistan, blowing people apart in cafes across the Middle East, illegally spying on Americans for who knows what reason, and generally acting like a bunch of psychopaths with little to no respect for the rule of law. Why would we trust any institution acting so obviously violent and so completely unaccountable?