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If it would be rather awkward if instead of more peace and transparency, the Snowden files would lead to more open animosity and even war. Of course blame shou

by tinco 13y ago

If it would be rather awkward if instead of more peace and transparency, the Snowden files would lead to more open animosity and even war. Of course blame should never fall on Snowden, but I think it is a given that close countries spy on each other. Nations act on self interest, it is very important to know what other nations are doing around you, or you could be caught unawares, like Europe was when the Blitzkrieg started.

glhaynes 13y ago
Of course blame should never fall on Snowden Why not? I'm not wanting to make the case that it should necessarily, but the idea that some blame shouldn't fall on him if international catastrophe comes from his actions doesn't seem obviously justified. If his actions seem to lead to peace and transparency, I'd expect history to give him some of the credit.
- tinco 13y ago
  I guess that's just my ethical system. He alone is not capable of initiating national conflicts, he simply does not have the power. He has (had) the power to influence the decisions of those with power, but in any circumstance, as long as those in power have control over their own emotions/actions, they should be solely responsible for the actions they take. Example where some people might disagree with me: If the Hamas launches rockets on an Israeli settlement, killing hundreds, and in return Netanyahu orders a retaliation, killing one Palestinian civilian. Then I believe Netanyahu is responsible for that death, and Hamas is not. Because Netanyahu made the conscious decision to attack.
  - czr80 13y ago
    Responsibility is not zero-sum - it's perfectly possible for multiple people to share different degrees of responsibility for an outcome.
    - tinco 13y ago
      Sure, the solder who pulled the trigger, the commanding officer who gave the order, the general who made the mission on direction of the prime minister all share in the responsibility as well.
rayiner 13y ago
I appreciate the leaks discussing spying programs aimed domestically, but the leaks regarding international spying make no sense to me. It's like the person who makes a social situation weird by pointing out an awkward fact that everyone knows but sensibly doesn't say out loud.

by tinco 13y ago

glhaynes 13y ago

Of course blame should never fall on Snowden Why not? I'm not wanting to make the case that it should necessarily, but the idea that some blame shouldn't fall on him if international catastrophe comes from his actions doesn't seem obviously justified. If his actions seem to lead to peace and transparency, I'd expect history to give him some of the credit.

tinco 13y ago
I guess that's just my ethical system. He alone is not capable of initiating national conflicts, he simply does not have the power. He has (had) the power to influence the decisions of those with power, but in any circumstance, as long as those in power have control over their own emotions/actions, they should be solely responsible for the actions they take. Example where some people might disagree with me: If the Hamas launches rockets on an Israeli settlement, killing hundreds, and in return Netanyahu orders a retaliation, killing one Palestinian civilian. Then I believe Netanyahu is responsible for that death, and Hamas is not. Because Netanyahu made the conscious decision to attack.
- czr80 13y ago
  Responsibility is not zero-sum - it's perfectly possible for multiple people to share different degrees of responsibility for an outcome.
  - tinco 13y ago
    Sure, the solder who pulled the trigger, the commanding officer who gave the order, the general who made the mission on direction of the prime minister all share in the responsibility as well.

rayiner 13y ago

I appreciate the leaks discussing spying programs aimed domestically, but the leaks regarding international spying make no sense to me. It's like the person who makes a social situation weird by pointing out an awkward fact that everyone knows but sensibly doesn't say out loud.