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This obviously depends on your specific scenario, but paying the maintenance/flexibility premium for something like AWS can be cheaper than something more rigid

• vidarh 13y ago
  It can be cheaper for very limited situations, sure. I have never seen a case where AWS makes financial sense for the base load, or for anyone without that severely bursty traffic, though. For batch jobs or handling peaks of less than 6-8 hours, sure. But fewer people have peaks that are economical to handle that way than they think. And for those who do - e.g. retailers that needs to handle the christmas rush, depending on a system where servers can in theory become unavailable at any time is a high risk game. Most of the time you can get to 30% of AWS with rented managed servers. Racking your own kit can get substantially below that. Going hybrid is interesting, though, as it actually makes the case for actually using AWS much even weaker for most people: Whereas previously you'd need your managed servers to be able to handle sufficient peaks to give you time to spin up more servers, once you have support for spinning up cloud instances for peaks, you can often aim for near 100% utilisation during normal days peaks, which magnifies the price difference substantially. Even for most e-commerce sites, unless your site has a very localised audience, peaks are rarely high enough or sharp enough to make AWS economical if you have a system that's prepped for a hybrid situation - you can let things get very close to the wire, and start spinning up VMs, but you very rarely will find situations where it's worth doing for more than a few days before it'll be apparent it'll be cheaper to spin up a managed machine billed monthly, and/or putting in an order for more kit to put in your own rack. > Not having lots of idle capacity that still has to be managed and paid for, You are still paying for it with AWS with every single hour of VM's you pay for - it's one of the reasons AWS is so expensive: You have to fund all the spare capacity they need to have on standby to prevent running out of hardware during peaks. > not having to beef up the Ops/IT staff, This attitude scares me. You have to be prepared to deal with outages of pretty much every kind with AWS too. If you run managed servers, there's pretty much no difference, other than that you have to account for whatever the hosts turnaround time in bringing up new servers is (which one of those places where a hybrid setup might help you - especially if you're using a host like e.g. Softlayer or Iweb that offers the full range from managed servers to cloud servers in the same data centres). The one thing you don't have to deal with is if you use a colo and it saves you people to cable up and rack servers and install the OS. But you can hire people to do that too. > not having to own your own/manage/maintain hardware, etc. ... but you don't need to do this to beat AWS hands down, either: If you rent managed servers on a month by month basis, with no contracted minimum term, you can still easily come out vastly cheaper for the base load and most peaks. > My advice to others is to be wary about generalized figures like "20-30% of cloud cost" from anyone with a vested interest in getting you to switch. Generalizations are dangerous when every usage case is different. Sure. It's sound advice to do your own maths. But every time I have, for a variety of different sites, AWS has come out ludicrously expensive for anything but batch jobs and very short, sharp peaks.
  • mattbillenstein 13y ago
    Yes, nicely put - people have a hard time believing it until you start to put numbers in front of them. AWS has turned infrastructure into an api and software which is just simply fantastic, but you pay for that sort of flexibility.
    • gtaylor 13y ago
      > AWS has turned infrastructure into an api and software which is just simply fantastic, but you pay for that sort of flexibility. There's nothing wrong with paying for the flexibility, though. We gladly do it because it's a great fit for our traffic patterns and our staffing level.
• mattbillenstein 13y ago
  Yes, every situation is different, but replacing capacity that you use at peak on AWS will cost you much less to buy, rack, and power yourself considering hardware and hosting costs. Elastic scaling will save you money on AWS, but you generally can't scale everything (databases, caches, storage are harder to elastically scale up and down). And you need to pay at peak for whatever your peak is and deal with additional complexity of elastic scaling to begin with. No doubt you're paying smart people already to figure this out - it doesn't come for free. In any account - if you take a largish box you might rack as an example (Dual-socket Sandy Bridge Xeon, ~256GB RAM, SSD, approximately a cr1.8xlarge), that box costs about $30k annually on AWS. You can buy it for around $8k. Over two years with hosting costs, you're looking at around $10k vs $60k roughly. Numbers work out similarly for other instance types although you would need some scale - perhaps a dozen of these systems - for this to make sense for your application. Netflix I think is a special case - video delivery which they almost certainly don't do from AWS is their biggest cost - api/web traffic would be dwarfed in comparison, so who cares if it's expensive on AWS in that case? They probably enjoy the flexibility of AWS more than the little bit of money they might save by doing it themselves. Many other largish companies have gone the private cloud route; Zynga comes to mind: http://www.informationweek.com/mobile/inside-zyngas-big-move-to-private-cloud/d/d-id/1102899? http://www.informationweek.com/mobile/inside-zyngas-big-move...). It's not the right fit for everybody, but it's a consideration. Hybrid is interesting too -- provision your own hardware for the big iron - and burst into cloud for the rest of it. All the hype of "cloud" makes people think that it's the only and/or best way to do it - certainly not the case for every sort of business.
  • gtaylor 13y ago
    > Yes, every situation is different, but replacing capacity that you use at peak on AWS will cost you much less to buy, rack, and power yourself considering hardware and hosting costs. The important thing to keep in mind with a DIY situation is that there are additional costs besides hardware/rack/space, and a lot of things that you may have a hard time putting a dollar value on (flexibility). It's not accurate to just throw out the cost for a Sandy Bridge Xeon + rack space without factoring in the other stuff (upgrades, maintenance, if you need to add an employee, the lessened mobility, the increased responsibility, etc). At our current scale, if we went the DIY route, we'd need to hire someone else to take over more of the Ops situation for us. An additional employee would cost a lot more than paying AWS a bit more (salary, management overhead, good benefits, communication). We'd also have more "stuff" to worry about, whereas right now our small team spends 98% of our time working on our product, marketing, and sales. This is entirely anecdotal and specific to our situation, but I mention it as an example. > All the hype of "cloud" makes people think that it's the only and/or best way to do it - certainly not the case for every sort of business. I personally can't stand the "cloud" buzz word, because it doesn't adequately describe anything. I am no "cloud" zealot, but on the same token I think some bare-metal-always-wins advocates don't really "get" what AWS is doing or when it's appropriate to use them (even if they appear more expensive at face value). As a developer, I've seen the kind of crazy neat things we can do with the flexibility and the shifting of responsibilities to AWS. For us, AWS is a no-brainer, though we do wish we had a more affordable route to going hybrid than DirectConnect or their dedicated machine offerings. But like I said, I wouldn't dare make a generalized assertion of AWS' value to others based on our situation. Every company/staff/application is different.