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In Wave Collapse/Many Worlds, a parallel universe is created in which wave collapse occured but gave a different outcome. That is incorrect. Many Worlds does n

• hugh 19y ago
  <i>That is incorrect. Many Worlds does not say universes are created all the time, it says they already exist and become differentiated.</i> Actually there's no real consensus on that point, even among many-worlds theorists. Some folks suggest that universes "split", others suggest that they "become differentiated", and a third set of folks say that they do something which isn't really properly described by either of the above options. Deutsch has one of the more widely publicised many-worlds interpretations, but it's not the only one out there, and it's not necessarily the most widely accepted.
  • curi 19y ago
    I don't really care what views are popular, (though MWI is popular among top experts to whom it matters), I care which views are true. So what matters to me is which proponents say things that make sense and give good explanations and arguments. Deutsch does, including a powerful and concise argument in chapter 2 of his book. When someone gives a reasonable counter argument then I will reconsider, but that has not happened. And, of course, Deutsch isn't the only example of the MWI side making more sense. Here is another source: http://www.hedweb.com/manworld.htm http://www.hedweb.com/manworld.htm Edit: If you can give a non-ridiculous summary of any other interpretation, go ahead...
    • angryprofessor 19y ago
      Some of the many worlds variants make sense. I prefer bohmian mechanics (I can reason about it better), but I have no objection to MW. Ultimately I don't care one way or the other: the predictions for MY universe are the same, whether or not it is unique or one amoung many. However, the point I was making is that most physicists believe in wave collapse. The writer of the article was simply providing a reasonably good summary of QM with wave collapse. According to Q1 of your article, this is still a mainstream belief except amoung string theorists, apparently. I agree, it's almost certainly wrong. But that's not yet a mainstream position. As for other non-ridiculous interpretations, just look at bohmian mechanics or GRW. Bohmian mechanics postulates that particles exist and are guided by the wave function. The testable physical predictions are identical to many worlds. GRW makes different physical predictions (possibly testable in the near future), but the theory makes sense as well.
      • curi 19y ago
        There are two varieties of bohm interpretation: one says that there are "hidden variables". what this means is all particles store information, from the start of existence, about all other particles they will ever have anything to do with. how they store this vast amount of information isn't explained. then, they act on the information. then somehow either this information is used by some physical process to follow the SE (Schrodinger Equation), or they don't bother with that and say the SE is sometimes false for some reason or other. notice all the parts where some explanation is left out. that makes it ridiculous to call this a reasonable alternative to MWI. MWI does flesh out details. the other version -- the pilot wave theory -- says there are special particles that go along one groove of the wave function: our universe. this is a ridiculous attempt to make up some special status for our universe. GRW is about the wave function randomly collapsing when there's enough information flow we might have to face the prospect of other universe-sized-things. why random? b/c that's better than saying "when we want it to so we can avoid MWI" and better than copenhagen's "when people are watching". how do they try to get away with this? well, mostly universes don't affect each other. so basically any time a universe isn't going to affect ours anymore, a "random" collapse occurs, and it disappears. this doesn't break things too too badly b/c ... it's a bit like saying anything so far away we can't see it, doesn't exist. frustrating to disprove. but still ridiculous.
    • hugh 19y ago
      My point is that there are other many-worlds interpretations apart from Deutsch's, which differ somewhat on philosophical issues like whether words really "split", as described above. The main problem with them is that they're all a bit vague and handwavey -- the world is still waiting for somebody to come up with a truly rigorous treatment of many-worlds and its consequences, and how it works in non-toy systems (i.e. systems which don't just consist of a single observer observing a single observable). The other problem is that most people writing on MWIs don't really acknowledge the existence of other MWIs, with the effect that everybody winds up talking past each other. Finally, it doesn't help that Everett's writings are so vague that we can't even figure out what he himself was saying. Personally, I suspect that MWI is likely to be true, and that other interpretations have insurmountable flaws, but I'd be very careful about going around saying everything else is "ridiculous".
      • curi 19y ago
        You're right that I should be careful with what I call ridiculous. I am. (Will now explain more details in response to the other guy's comment where he proposes bohm and grw theories as non-ridiculous)
• hugh 19y ago
  Oh, and by the way, the MWI FAQ you posted actually contradicts you on this point, it seems: "Q19 Do worlds differentiate or split?... Worlds do not exist in a quantum superposition independently of each other before they decohere or split. The splitting is a physical process, grounded in the dynamical evolution of the wave vector, not a matter of philosophical, linguistic or mental convenience" Which proves my point about how there are a several different MWIs.
  • curi 19y ago
    Heh, you're right that it says that. That's a shame, it's largely good.