3 ms·

"but I'm a programmer not a businessman" Actually don't short change yourself just because you might not have gone to "business" school. (Did you?) For exampl

by larrys 13y ago

"but I'm a programmer not a businessman" Actually don't short change yourself just because you might not have gone to "business" school. (Did you?) For example: "If I have to drive an hour to see my client or send a lot of things back & forth in the mail it's really just time wasted." Which makes a lot of sense. You have to factor in the pros and cons of all of this which you are clearly doing. What do I stand to gain? What do I stand to lose? "I just give estimates, tell the client when we're going over-budget." Exactly. State the framework "$x per hour" and keep them informed of any changes. Super easy to do with email as well. Communicate. I would also argue that getting people to sign things each and every time will get you less revenue because it gives them an opportunity to focus on the dollar to much. Once again, depending on the dollar amount and who you are dealing with. All situations are different.

fat0wl 13y ago
heh thanks for your vote of confidence... I've been getting a lot of flack on this thread for apparently having a controversial view but it's something I've reached through years of freelance in NYC & long-term contract work with a couple of major corporations. No business school, just easy-come-easy-go focus-on-the-bigger-picture engineering gigs. I say I'm not a businessman not because I don't do business, but because I just try to keep my focus on my skills that are actually generating revenue. In the end we're all at the will of the market and my personal belief is that the more pressing need is to understand those ebbs and flows rather than trying to build a safe-room. Chomsky I think said something about how 9/11 couldn't be a conspiracy because it would involve too many irrational actors working in concert. We must assume man to be rational. Kindof a non-sequitur, I know, but I approach business with this attitude. Assume you are dealing with rational actors, be a good judge of character (don't do a ton of work on spec for a business that is clearly failing, for example), and ride the wave. With this approach, the potential for gains is great and the losses are there but can easily be left in the rear-view mirror. Otherwise you will spend your week working and your weekends doing pro-bono bookkeeping for your own ventures. Seems we are very much in agreement here, hah.
- mechanical_fish 13y ago
  Assume you are dealing with rational actors, be a good judge of character… You work for corporations, right? It's never a good idea to bet big money that a human being who is rational and classy today will remain so for months or years in the future. (After you've lived with a few Alzheimer's patients, you'll know what I'm talking about.) But corporations aren't even human. Their character is literally for sale. The honest and rational person you worked for on Monday could be bought out and replaced by a knuckle-dragging troll before the week is out. Seven years from now, when one of your customers has been acquired by some new company that has never heard of you, and that new company's East Texas-based law firm decides to make some easy money by sending out letters like this: "We had a software problem last month that we believe cost us $1 million and which we traced to a line of code that you committed eight years ago. Would you like to pay us $200k, or defend our incipient lawsuit?" What are you gonna do? My plan is to take the problem to my lawyer, who will say: "Can you give me a copy of the signed contract that, together with an hour of my time, will make this problem go away forever?" And I will say: "Yes". And it's not like this contract took months of my time to create. If you're not picky, you call up a lawyer, you say "I need a boilerplate consulting contract," they pull one out of the files and hand it to you.
  - tptacek 13y ago
    To add to this: I would guess that the majority of our contracts are boilerplate, and executing them involves no additional legal expense.
    - larrys 13y ago
      Side note from when I was in the printing industry and handled forms and contracts.. You stand a better chance of getting something agreed to (in some contracts) if you are using a pre-printed form with fill in the blanks or a form that appears to be a "standard" form. (Like a lease etc.) A "standard" form is more likely (once again by certain parties) to just get signed and not questioned because it appears to be "the way things are done". Presenting someone with a 10 page microsoft word document screams "shit I'd better read this". Car dealers do this as well. They have forms where the have pre-printed in the gotcha fees (title transfer etc.) as if to say "hey this is the way it's done and everyone is charged that way".

by larrys 13y ago

fat0wl 13y ago

heh thanks for your vote of confidence... I've been getting a lot of flack on this thread for apparently having a controversial view but it's something I've reached through years of freelance in NYC & long-term contract work with a couple of major corporations. No business school, just easy-come-easy-go focus-on-the-bigger-picture engineering gigs. I say I'm not a businessman not because I don't do business, but because I just try to keep my focus on my skills that are actually generating revenue. In the end we're all at the will of the market and my personal belief is that the more pressing need is to understand those ebbs and flows rather than trying to build a safe-room. Chomsky I think said something about how 9/11 couldn't be a conspiracy because it would involve too many irrational actors working in concert. We must assume man to be rational. Kindof a non-sequitur, I know, but I approach business with this attitude. Assume you are dealing with rational actors, be a good judge of character (don't do a ton of work on spec for a business that is clearly failing, for example), and ride the wave. With this approach, the potential for gains is great and the losses are there but can easily be left in the rear-view mirror. Otherwise you will spend your week working and your weekends doing pro-bono bookkeeping for your own ventures. Seems we are very much in agreement here, hah.

mechanical_fish 13y ago
Assume you are dealing with rational actors, be a good judge of character… You work for corporations, right? It's never a good idea to bet big money that a human being who is rational and classy today will remain so for months or years in the future. (After you've lived with a few Alzheimer's patients, you'll know what I'm talking about.) But corporations aren't even human. Their character is literally for sale. The honest and rational person you worked for on Monday could be bought out and replaced by a knuckle-dragging troll before the week is out. Seven years from now, when one of your customers has been acquired by some new company that has never heard of you, and that new company's East Texas-based law firm decides to make some easy money by sending out letters like this: "We had a software problem last month that we believe cost us $1 million and which we traced to a line of code that you committed eight years ago. Would you like to pay us $200k, or defend our incipient lawsuit?" What are you gonna do? My plan is to take the problem to my lawyer, who will say: "Can you give me a copy of the signed contract that, together with an hour of my time, will make this problem go away forever?" And I will say: "Yes". And it's not like this contract took months of my time to create. If you're not picky, you call up a lawyer, you say "I need a boilerplate consulting contract," they pull one out of the files and hand it to you.
- tptacek 13y ago
  To add to this: I would guess that the majority of our contracts are boilerplate, and executing them involves no additional legal expense.
  - larrys 13y ago
    Side note from when I was in the printing industry and handled forms and contracts.. You stand a better chance of getting something agreed to (in some contracts) if you are using a pre-printed form with fill in the blanks or a form that appears to be a "standard" form. (Like a lease etc.) A "standard" form is more likely (once again by certain parties) to just get signed and not questioned because it appears to be "the way things are done". Presenting someone with a 10 page microsoft word document screams "shit I'd better read this". Car dealers do this as well. They have forms where the have pre-printed in the gotcha fees (title transfer etc.) as if to say "hey this is the way it's done and everyone is charged that way".