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> To over-generalize wildly: two classes of people want anonymity on the net What about those (like me) who don't want to abuse others, and don't have much rea

> To over-generalize wildly: two classes of people want anonymity on the net What about those (like me) who don't want to abuse others, and don't have much reason to fear abuse from others? What about those who like the benefits of privacy and want to control our own identities? Or those who feel creeped out by the way the internet is becoming a panopticon? I don't fear abuse, but I do feel unhappy at the need for people to put me in a box addressed by a single label. I also think privacy has a positive value, not just as a fight against negative things. Finally, I'm very uncomfortable with the way surveillance makes me want to self-censor.

cstross 13y ago
Finally, I'm very uncomfortable with the way surveillance makes me want to self-censor. Congratulations: that makes you part of the second category, the under-privileged -- like the inmates of Bentham's original panopticon, felons under surveillance in gaol, unsure whether they were being watched at any time. (Seriously, if you're retreating into self-censorship and worrying about privacy because of a lack of anonymity, then you're clearly in the disempowered group. Not as underprivileged as some, but sufficiently to be feeling the chill wind down your neck. Welcome to the club.)
- summerdown2 13y ago
  To some degree, I think you're right. But I also think there's another argument to be made here: Put as straightforwardly as I can, the two conditions in your original post seem to me negative: a) Those who want to abuse others anonymously create negatives in society. b) Those who want freedom from abuse are trying to escape negatives in society. I think in addition to those, there is something that makes privacy a positive. Here's an analogy: it's like defining mental health as "not being sick." A lot of psychology has historically treated it this way, but then I read people like Victor Frankl, or look at the Self-Actualisation piece of Maslow's Hierarchy and I see health can mean connectedness, joy and many things that don't fit on a purely negative level. I don't know how I'd even begin to articulate the things I find positive about privacy, but I do think there's something. Perhaps I'd start with appealing to you as a writer. Isn't the ability to get lost in your thoughts and be creative without censoring the flow somehow connected to privacy?

cstross 13y ago

Finally, I'm very uncomfortable with the way surveillance makes me want to self-censor. Congratulations: that makes you part of the second category, the under-privileged -- like the inmates of Bentham's original panopticon, felons under surveillance in gaol, unsure whether they were being watched at any time. (Seriously, if you're retreating into self-censorship and worrying about privacy because of a lack of anonymity, then you're clearly in the disempowered group. Not as underprivileged as some, but sufficiently to be feeling the chill wind down your neck. Welcome to the club.)

summerdown2 13y ago
To some degree, I think you're right. But I also think there's another argument to be made here: Put as straightforwardly as I can, the two conditions in your original post seem to me negative: a) Those who want to abuse others anonymously create negatives in society. b) Those who want freedom from abuse are trying to escape negatives in society. I think in addition to those, there is something that makes privacy a positive. Here's an analogy: it's like defining mental health as "not being sick." A lot of psychology has historically treated it this way, but then I read people like Victor Frankl, or look at the Self-Actualisation piece of Maslow's Hierarchy and I see health can mean connectedness, joy and many things that don't fit on a purely negative level. I don't know how I'd even begin to articulate the things I find positive about privacy, but I do think there's something. Perhaps I'd start with appealing to you as a writer. Isn't the ability to get lost in your thoughts and be creative without censoring the flow somehow connected to privacy?