5 ms·

I'm just going to echo what everyone else is saying: Contract. Contract. Contract. A contract isn't some scary legal document full of cryptic legalese. It's a

by chasing 13y ago

I'm just going to echo what everyone else is saying: Contract. Contract. Contract. A contract isn't some scary legal document full of cryptic legalese. It's a clear description of what services will be provided and what the compensation will be. And on what schedule everything will happen. With details about what happens if things go south. Most client problems are not as cut-and-dry as "he took all of my work and is laughing at me and lighting cigars with $100 bills while he refuses to pay me for absolutely no reason." Most disputes are based on misunderstandings of some sort. They think feature X was in-scope. You disagree and want to bill them additionally for it. They are withholding pay because they don't consider the project completed. You do. And such. Having to threaten a client will waste a ton of your time and sour relationships -- clients you have disputes with can still be good clients. This is why you write down everyone's expectations at the start. Most clients aren't evil. They want good relationships with the people who work for them. But disagreements arise. Contracts give everyone a neutral document to refer to and say "look, this is what we agreed upon when we started." Use contracts.

larrys 13y ago
"Use contracts." First, to state the obvious which anyone who has been around for some time will tell you a contract is only good if the dollar amount is enough to get a lawyer involved as far as filing and pursuing any legal action. Otherwise good luck with trying to convert a contract into actual dollars because you are right. Anyway, for the purpose of what you are saying it doesn't have to be a "formal" contract but merely an email trail will suffice to make your point and get the other party (if honorable) to pay. In the past I've even used notes of verbal conversations which I've repeated back the sequence of events to the satisfaction of the other side. (Once again totally depends on who the other side is and their motives.) Now if they are not honorable, don't have the money, or just want to play games, then if you have enough at stake to hire an attorney a formal contract is a benefit (but not essential since the "trier of fact" as well as the other side will weigh their chance of settling vs. fighting). Consequently, yes, documentation is key but it's more a balance of power rather than the formality of the document). Unfortunately the article completely ignores the practical aspects of going after someone who owes you money despite what any contract says. As if the law is enough to make the right thing happen. It's not.
- bmelton 13y ago
  You're not wrong, but I'd feel remiss if I didn't make a point. > but merely an email trail will suffice to make your point and get the other party (if honorable) to pay. This is true if and when you are expressive in your emails. As soon as a new feature is added to the scope, it is imperative that you speak out and say "Well, this is out of scope, but we can likely accommodate by adjusting the scope <however>". Far too often I see freelancers just take on the work without mentioning it's a scope change, only to have to fight for the bill to be paid later. In fact, most of the people I see complaining about customers not paying are due to a failure of setting appropriate expectations. If timelines are changing as a result of your efforts, notify the customer. If they're changing as a result of the customer's actions, notify the customer. If the scope is changing for any reason, notify the customer. Do not expect to be able to submit a bill at the end of the day and have it be paid -- in companies of a sufficient size, the person paying the bills is not the same person you're dealing with on scope, and the person paying the bills is likely being paid, in part, to ensure that they aren't being over billed. Where that's the case, they'll examine the contract line by line and compare it to the invoice, and pity to whomever meets someone good at that job. They're not trying to screw you over, they're just trying to make sure taht they're not getting ripped off, and changing how you bill the customer without notifying the customer of a change, looks very much like ripping them off (even if it isn't.) Use contracts. Use email. Speak plainly.
- tptacek 13y ago
  Contracts are such a basic fact of business life, universally understood by good-faith vendors and customers, that recalcitrance about signing one should be taken as a "run don't walk" signal. By working without a contract, you doubly imperil yourself: you lose significant legal protections, and also select a client base that is particularly likely to cause you problems down the road. Matasano has many clients we've maintained since the formation of the company in 2005, and many more where our counterparts in those companies are friends. The idea of doing business with any of them sans contract is unthinkable. It just doesn't happen. Working without a contract is unprofessional. Don't do it.
  - larrys 13y ago

by chasing 13y ago

larrys 13y ago

"Use contracts." First, to state the obvious which anyone who has been around for some time will tell you a contract is only good if the dollar amount is enough to get a lawyer involved as far as filing and pursuing any legal action. Otherwise good luck with trying to convert a contract into actual dollars because you are right. Anyway, for the purpose of what you are saying it doesn't have to be a "formal" contract but merely an email trail will suffice to make your point and get the other party (if honorable) to pay. In the past I've even used notes of verbal conversations which I've repeated back the sequence of events to the satisfaction of the other side. (Once again totally depends on who the other side is and their motives.) Now if they are not honorable, don't have the money, or just want to play games, then if you have enough at stake to hire an attorney a formal contract is a benefit (but not essential since the "trier of fact" as well as the other side will weigh their chance of settling vs. fighting). Consequently, yes, documentation is key but it's more a balance of power rather than the formality of the document). Unfortunately the article completely ignores the practical aspects of going after someone who owes you money despite what any contract says. As if the law is enough to make the right thing happen. It's not.

bmelton 13y ago
You're not wrong, but I'd feel remiss if I didn't make a point. > but merely an email trail will suffice to make your point and get the other party (if honorable) to pay. This is true if and when you are expressive in your emails. As soon as a new feature is added to the scope, it is imperative that you speak out and say "Well, this is out of scope, but we can likely accommodate by adjusting the scope <however>". Far too often I see freelancers just take on the work without mentioning it's a scope change, only to have to fight for the bill to be paid later. In fact, most of the people I see complaining about customers not paying are due to a failure of setting appropriate expectations. If timelines are changing as a result of your efforts, notify the customer. If they're changing as a result of the customer's actions, notify the customer. If the scope is changing for any reason, notify the customer. Do not expect to be able to submit a bill at the end of the day and have it be paid -- in companies of a sufficient size, the person paying the bills is not the same person you're dealing with on scope, and the person paying the bills is likely being paid, in part, to ensure that they aren't being over billed. Where that's the case, they'll examine the contract line by line and compare it to the invoice, and pity to whomever meets someone good at that job. They're not trying to screw you over, they're just trying to make sure taht they're not getting ripped off, and changing how you bill the customer without notifying the customer of a change, looks very much like ripping them off (even if it isn't.) Use contracts. Use email. Speak plainly.
tptacek 13y ago
Contracts are such a basic fact of business life, universally understood by good-faith vendors and customers, that recalcitrance about signing one should be taken as a "run don't walk" signal. By working without a contract, you doubly imperil yourself: you lose significant legal protections, and also select a client base that is particularly likely to cause you problems down the road. Matasano has many clients we've maintained since the formation of the company in 2005, and many more where our counterparts in those companies are friends. The idea of doing business with any of them sans contract is unthinkable. It just doesn't happen. Working without a contract is unprofessional. Don't do it.
- larrys 13y ago