4 ms·

If you are in that position, why not just have your entire Google account under a fake name?

by jfoster 13y ago

vdaniuk 13y ago
Or make a G+ page that allows pseudonymous comments for YT videos. Simple as that.
- graeme 13y ago
  I'm a Hacker News user with 2236 karma, and I can't figure out the Google+ Pages system. Where does that leave the average user? It seems very easy to make a permanent change you don't intend when you're using Google+.
  - vdaniuk 13y ago
    How much time did you spend figuring Google+ pages? It is straightforward and is nearly the same experience as creating a page on facebook. You literally need less than 10 minutes to create a Google+ page http://www.google.com/+/business/brands/get-started.html http://www.google.com/+/business/brands/get-started.html
    - tripa 13y ago
      It used to take an order of magnitude less time than that to create a pseudonymous YouTube account.
      - vdaniuk 13y ago
        That is a good thing when creation of an anonymous account takes some time and/or proof-of-work. That limits spam while providing an opportunity for legit uses of anonymous accounts.
    - graeme 13y ago
      I did successfully create a page. The problem was that it's still not clear to me how to keep identities separate. I previously worked for a startup, and had a google apps account. It was impossible to convince Google that the account shouldn't have a Google+ profile, or that it should be the same profile as my personal profile. And to date I'm still not sure if my page is a youtube account page, a page on my personal account page, or both. I'm sure there are answers to these questions. I'd say most of my research time was spent making sure that the page wouldn't do something I didn't want it to do, because Google+ burned me repeatedly by unintended behavior. Google also tends to make things permanent, such as the capitalization of my Youtube account channel. So it's not as simple as "follow the instructions on the page". If you care about identity, you have to follow the instructions on the page AND make sure the instructions won't lead to something permanently wrong.
    - yabatopia 13y ago
      I could be wrong, but I think Greame is talking about the concept of Pages to create an pseudonym for individuals, not for (small) companies. Apparently you can create a pseudonym on Google+ with Pages, but Pages are mainly marketed towards brands and companies [1], not individuals. It's confusing even for Google employees [2], let alone users. A support page on YouTube tries to explain the difference between Google+ Profiles, Google+ Pages and Google Accounts [3]. But the fact that a Page can be managed by up to 50 different people suggests, at least to me, that the use of Pages to create and manage your pseudonym is more incidental than intentional. [1] https://support.google.com/plus/answer/1710600 https://support.google.com/plus/answer/1710600 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6747875 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6747875 [3] https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2848323?hl=en https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2848323?hl=en
- dredmorbius 13y ago
  I already had two separate identities. I repeatedly told Google I wanted them kept separate. Google merged them. There's no clear way for me to undo the damage. Screenshots I've posted for my YouTube configuration preferences don't show what other's equivalent shots do. I'm, frankly, not interested in jumping through hoops to get what Google might offer by way of account segregation now, and change its mind on in another 3, or 6, or 24, or 72 months. Clearly I cannot trust it to respect my specifically indicated wishes, and clearly, the company doesn't respect its users (in many ways, I've detailed these elsewhere including on HN). Oh, and both identities are pseudonymous. And I studiously avoided circling anyone I knew IRL to avoid outing myself. Never posted photos I'd actually taken, carefully edited screenshots to avoid showing revealing information (though I likely left in a few clues that would help narrow down my identity). Don't mention where I live, where I work, or how I spend my time. Simply because my preference is to be able to speak freely and discuss things, though really, the "why" shouldn't matter. I simply prefer it this way. https://plus.google.com/u/0/104092656004159577193/posts/VZSLjkdqksG https://plus.google.com/u/0/104092656004159577193/posts/VZSL...
kevingadd 13y ago
Fake names get your account suspended. (Real names get accounts suspended too, if they look fake enough)
- vdaniuk 13y ago
  Just create an account with "John or Jane Smith" or any other believable combination of common names.
  - varjag 13y ago
    That doesn't work long term. Sooner or later, your social and activity graphs overlap enough to warrant flagging.
    - vdaniuk 13y ago
      Care to elaborate? Preferably with proofs that if activity and social graphs of two accounts ovelap at some threshold level user accounts are flagged.
      - varjag 13y ago
        I don't work at Google, so you won't see any proofs out of me (nor of course you'd see any if I did work at Google). But sooner or later, the browsing habits out of the two active accounts are bound to converge pretty well. Remember you've been tracked not just when you post comments, but on every page out there that has a "+1" button. Then, there will be some close friends who'd be connected on both accounts. In addition both your real and fake account are very likely to be accessed from the same set of IPs or subnets, locations and time slices. This may sound complicated, but this sort of mining is just an extension of spam filtering techniques (to which at this point Google invested many millions), and requires zero human intervention. And since it can be done and there is an incentive for Google to do it, it will be done.
        vdaniuk 13y ago

If you are in that position, why not just have your entire Google account under a fake name?

by jfoster 13y ago

If you are in that position, why not just have your entire Google account under a fake name?

vdaniuk 13y ago

Or make a G+ page that allows pseudonymous comments for YT videos. Simple as that.

graeme 13y ago
I'm a Hacker News user with 2236 karma, and I can't figure out the Google+ Pages system. Where does that leave the average user? It seems very easy to make a permanent change you don't intend when you're using Google+.
- vdaniuk 13y ago
  How much time did you spend figuring Google+ pages? It is straightforward and is nearly the same experience as creating a page on facebook. You literally need less than 10 minutes to create a Google+ page http://www.google.com/+/business/brands/get-started.html http://www.google.com/+/business/brands/get-started.html
  - tripa 13y ago
    It used to take an order of magnitude less time than that to create a pseudonymous YouTube account.
    - vdaniuk 13y ago
      That is a good thing when creation of an anonymous account takes some time and/or proof-of-work. That limits spam while providing an opportunity for legit uses of anonymous accounts.
  - graeme 13y ago
    I did successfully create a page. The problem was that it's still not clear to me how to keep identities separate. I previously worked for a startup, and had a google apps account. It was impossible to convince Google that the account shouldn't have a Google+ profile, or that it should be the same profile as my personal profile. And to date I'm still not sure if my page is a youtube account page, a page on my personal account page, or both. I'm sure there are answers to these questions. I'd say most of my research time was spent making sure that the page wouldn't do something I didn't want it to do, because Google+ burned me repeatedly by unintended behavior. Google also tends to make things permanent, such as the capitalization of my Youtube account channel. So it's not as simple as "follow the instructions on the page". If you care about identity, you have to follow the instructions on the page AND make sure the instructions won't lead to something permanently wrong.
  - yabatopia 13y ago
    I could be wrong, but I think Greame is talking about the concept of Pages to create an pseudonym for individuals, not for (small) companies. Apparently you can create a pseudonym on Google+ with Pages, but Pages are mainly marketed towards brands and companies [1], not individuals. It's confusing even for Google employees [2], let alone users. A support page on YouTube tries to explain the difference between Google+ Profiles, Google+ Pages and Google Accounts [3]. But the fact that a Page can be managed by up to 50 different people suggests, at least to me, that the use of Pages to create and manage your pseudonym is more incidental than intentional. [1] https://support.google.com/plus/answer/1710600 https://support.google.com/plus/answer/1710600 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6747875 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6747875 [3] https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2848323?hl=en https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2848323?hl=en
dredmorbius 13y ago
I already had two separate identities. I repeatedly told Google I wanted them kept separate. Google merged them. There's no clear way for me to undo the damage. Screenshots I've posted for my YouTube configuration preferences don't show what other's equivalent shots do. I'm, frankly, not interested in jumping through hoops to get what Google might offer by way of account segregation now, and change its mind on in another 3, or 6, or 24, or 72 months. Clearly I cannot trust it to respect my specifically indicated wishes, and clearly, the company doesn't respect its users (in many ways, I've detailed these elsewhere including on HN). Oh, and both identities are pseudonymous. And I studiously avoided circling anyone I knew IRL to avoid outing myself. Never posted photos I'd actually taken, carefully edited screenshots to avoid showing revealing information (though I likely left in a few clues that would help narrow down my identity). Don't mention where I live, where I work, or how I spend my time. Simply because my preference is to be able to speak freely and discuss things, though really, the "why" shouldn't matter. I simply prefer it this way. https://plus.google.com/u/0/104092656004159577193/posts/VZSLjkdqksG https://plus.google.com/u/0/104092656004159577193/posts/VZSL...

kevingadd 13y ago

Fake names get your account suspended. (Real names get accounts suspended too, if they look fake enough)

vdaniuk 13y ago
Just create an account with "John or Jane Smith" or any other believable combination of common names.
- varjag 13y ago
  That doesn't work long term. Sooner or later, your social and activity graphs overlap enough to warrant flagging.
  - vdaniuk 13y ago
    Care to elaborate? Preferably with proofs that if activity and social graphs of two accounts ovelap at some threshold level user accounts are flagged.
    - varjag 13y ago
      I don't work at Google, so you won't see any proofs out of me (nor of course you'd see any if I did work at Google). But sooner or later, the browsing habits out of the two active accounts are bound to converge pretty well. Remember you've been tracked not just when you post comments, but on every page out there that has a "+1" button. Then, there will be some close friends who'd be connected on both accounts. In addition both your real and fake account are very likely to be accessed from the same set of IPs or subnets, locations and time slices. This may sound complicated, but this sort of mining is just an extension of spam filtering techniques (to which at this point Google invested many millions), and requires zero human intervention. And since it can be done and there is an incentive for Google to do it, it will be done.
      - vdaniuk 13y ago