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How An Israeli Sees The Recent NSA Controversy

7 points by ishener 13y ago

smoyer 13y ago
"Don’t you think it’s better to damage the entire society in a broad spread, than having a few individuals taking all the damage? Of course you don’t, you are hypocrat liberal white people" No ... but if you write the same exact blog post replacing "terrorism" with "automobiles", you can make a very good argument for outlawing cars.
- ishener 13y ago
  you're right. "The goal of the NSA’s eavesdropping was to prevent automobiles". Wow, now it's clear we need to outlaw cars.
  - smoyer 13y ago
    You missed the point of the article ... that it's better to damage all of society a little bit to save some people from a lot of damage. And I was pointing out that most of our modern conveniences have some level of risk associated with them. Privacy has similar risks.
  - Zigurd 13y ago
    His point is that the broad argument that damaging all of society a little is OK falls down when generalized. And, on top of that, even this intrusive, pervasive, broadly damaging surveillance doesn't actually prevent what it claims to prevent. There is a problem with trying to analogize from the Israeli point of view. Almost no place on Earth is enough like Israel, and is in a sufficiently similar condition, for those analogies to work. As the TSA's behavioral screening fiasco shows, it is also, for the same reasons, very difficult to transplant Israeli practices in security.
    - smoyer 13y ago
      I should also point out that the Israeli method of doing airport screening is to be admired. Highly-trained agents who understand human psychology, body language, etc. ask the right questions and have a lot better chance of picking out who needs additional screening than the random algorithm that results in "SSS" being printed on your boarding pass. Israel, from its inception has been in dramatically more danger than the U.S., so I'm not surprised that their attitudes are different.
      - anon1685 13y ago
        "... the Israeli method of doing airport screening is to be admired" Well that depends on who you ask. Palestinians or even people with distant Arab roots who are subject to racial profiling, or even people suspected of being, god forbid, peace activists might tell you otherwise. Some examples: http://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/do-you-feel-more-arab-or-more-american-two-arab-american-womens-story-of-being-detained-and-interrogated-at-ben-gurion.html http://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/do-you-feel-more-arab-or-more-... http://mondoweiss.net/2013/10/big-hold.html http://mondoweiss.net/2013/10/big-hold.html http://english.pnn.ps/index.php/politics/6148-palestinian-athlete-still-waiting-for-belongings-6-days-after-flight-from-ben-gurion http://english.pnn.ps/index.php/politics/6148-palestinian-at...
CurtHagenlocher 13y ago
What's hypocritical about not wanting to live in a surveillance state?
olgeni 13y ago
Next time, please put the "white people" at the top, so my Ctrl-W reflex will trigger before reaching the end.
- ishener 13y ago
  that was on purpose
anon1685 13y ago
Putting aside the condescending tone of the article, the actual argument represents the typical Israeli knee-jerk reaction to terrorism, and the absolutely myopic, black-and-white, I-don't-give-a-shit-about-anyone-else's-pain-because-we've-been-through-the-holocaust world view so proudly exhibited by the Israeli mainstream. I'm also Israeli (although not currently living in Israel), and I can assure you that there are many Israelis, me included, who are very disturbed by the recent NSA revelations.
malandrew 13y ago
The concluding sentence screams "flag me".

7 points by ishener 13y ago

"Don’t you think it’s better to damage the entire society in a broad spread, than having a few individuals taking all the damage? Of course you don’t, you are hypocrat liberal white people" No ... but if you write the same exact blog post replacing "terrorism" with "automobiles", you can make a very good argument for outlawing cars.

ishener 13y ago
you're right. "The goal of the NSA’s eavesdropping was to prevent automobiles". Wow, now it's clear we need to outlaw cars.
- smoyer 13y ago
  You missed the point of the article ... that it's better to damage all of society a little bit to save some people from a lot of damage. And I was pointing out that most of our modern conveniences have some level of risk associated with them. Privacy has similar risks.
- Zigurd 13y ago
  His point is that the broad argument that damaging all of society a little is OK falls down when generalized. And, on top of that, even this intrusive, pervasive, broadly damaging surveillance doesn't actually prevent what it claims to prevent. There is a problem with trying to analogize from the Israeli point of view. Almost no place on Earth is enough like Israel, and is in a sufficiently similar condition, for those analogies to work. As the TSA's behavioral screening fiasco shows, it is also, for the same reasons, very difficult to transplant Israeli practices in security.
  - smoyer 13y ago
    I should also point out that the Israeli method of doing airport screening is to be admired. Highly-trained agents who understand human psychology, body language, etc. ask the right questions and have a lot better chance of picking out who needs additional screening than the random algorithm that results in "SSS" being printed on your boarding pass. Israel, from its inception has been in dramatically more danger than the U.S., so I'm not surprised that their attitudes are different.
    - anon1685 13y ago
      "... the Israeli method of doing airport screening is to be admired" Well that depends on who you ask. Palestinians or even people with distant Arab roots who are subject to racial profiling, or even people suspected of being, god forbid, peace activists might tell you otherwise. Some examples: http://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/do-you-feel-more-arab-or-more-american-two-arab-american-womens-story-of-being-detained-and-interrogated-at-ben-gurion.html http://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/do-you-feel-more-arab-or-more-... http://mondoweiss.net/2013/10/big-hold.html http://mondoweiss.net/2013/10/big-hold.html http://english.pnn.ps/index.php/politics/6148-palestinian-athlete-still-waiting-for-belongings-6-days-after-flight-from-ben-gurion http://english.pnn.ps/index.php/politics/6148-palestinian-at...

CurtHagenlocher 13y ago

What's hypocritical about not wanting to live in a surveillance state?

olgeni 13y ago

Next time, please put the "white people" at the top, so my Ctrl-W reflex will trigger before reaching the end.

ishener 13y ago
that was on purpose

anon1685 13y ago

Putting aside the condescending tone of the article, the actual argument represents the typical Israeli knee-jerk reaction to terrorism, and the absolutely myopic, black-and-white, I-don't-give-a-shit-about-anyone-else's-pain-because-we've-been-through-the-holocaust world view so proudly exhibited by the Israeli mainstream. I'm also Israeli (although not currently living in Israel), and I can assure you that there are many Israelis, me included, who are very disturbed by the recent NSA revelations.

malandrew 13y ago

The concluding sentence screams "flag me".